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Plaid Cymru’s Rhun ap Iorwerth was challenged on budget decisions and the NHS in this week’s First Minister’s questions.

Tuesday’s plenary also saw the First Minister face questions on biological sex and funding for children with additional learning needs.

There was disruption in the chamber as shouting broke out when the First Minister admitted he had met with Reform UK’s Welsh leader Dan Thomas.

In his questions to the First Minister, Mr Thomas pressed him to disclose if he had had any talks with other political parties, if there are any potential areas of compromise within the supplementary budget, and if he’d be willing to work with Reform.

The First Minister responded: “It really shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody that I have met all leaders of political parties in this Senedd.

“When I speak of wanting to be a co-operative government, that means having conversations with leaders of Reform, the Conservatives, Labour, and the Green Party.

“I’m sorry if that’s come as a surprise to anybody.”

Mr ap Iorwerth said his government is “determined” to put in place their programme for government and recognises that to do so it will need cross-chamber support.

“Plight”

Leader of the opposition Dan Thomas began his questions to the First Minister by drawing attention to the “plight” of student nurses.

He called on Mr ap Iorwerth to share if any of the £145 million allocated to the NHS in the supplementary budget will be used to “guarantee student midwives and student nurses a job when they finish their training.”

Noting that there are “some things […] that money can’t buy”, the First Minister said the current problems facing graduates are due to “over-commissioning” in 2022.

He said: “There’s a specific problem that has arisen this year, which should not have arisen, but it has arisen because training numbers for this cohort who are looking for jobs in September this year were commissioned in 2022.

“Now, we are living now with the challenges posed by the over-commissioning back then.”

Acknowledging how “unsettling” the lack of jobs must be, the First Minister confirmed his health minister has started work on improving the outcomes for graduates.

Mr ap Iorwerth said: “We will help those graduating now to get jobs. They have careers in the NHS. We need them.

“But we have a problem that we face right now, which this government is working around to quite rightly support those who are worried in a way that they shouldn’t be, when they signed up to those courses in 2022.”

“Sustainable approach”

Funding for children with additional learning needs was once again at the forefront of discussions in the Siambr.

Interim Labour leader Ken Skates pressed the First Minister to say how much he expects to receive from the UK Government in additional learning needs consequentials between now and 2029.

Noting the importance of the prioritisation of government money, the First Minister did not provide a specific figure in response to the Labour member.

Instead he pledged to concentrate on helping “children in education, patients in the health service and families who need support with childcare.”

Answering his own question, Mr Skates said: “The answer is more than £0.5 billion – more than £0.5 billion that will come to the Welsh Government as a result of increased spending by the UK Government on additional learning needs. That is a huge additional sum that your government will be receiving.

He added: “Every one of the 22 local authorities in Wales is calling for this year’s consequential to be passed to councils so that they can then pass it to schools for investment in children and in the teaching profession.”

He called on the First Minister share how much additional ALN funding he is willing to allocate in the supplementary budget.

Mr ap Iorwerth responded: “Those who have been in government will know that there are two sides of the ledger when it comes to budgets. There are consequentials, yes, from time to time, there are pressures, too.

“This government has inherited significant pressures, which have to be addressed – and we have inherited those pressures from previous governments – whilst taking a long-term and sustainable approach to the whole ALN system.”

The First Minister told the Siambr that the ALN pressures will be solved through “long-term thinking in developing policy” not by a one-off payment.

“Painful debate”

Natasha Asghar, the Conservative health spokesperson, pressed the First Minister to reveal what action the Welsh Government will be taking following the Supreme Court’s ruling on the “definition of biological sex”.

Ms Asghar told the Siambr she was recently contacted by Aneurin Bevan University Health Board staff who had received a presentation titled ‘transcending boundaries, celebrating transgender awareness week and how to be an ally’.

She said: “I’m all in favour of diversity, but I would much rather NHS staff focus on patients and delivering care, than them being distracted by training sessions that do not improve patient care and frontline services.”

Ms Asghar said the staff who contacted her said they felt extremely uncomfortable with the session, describing it as highly sexualised and inappropriate.

She added: “I can’t say I blame them when you hear some of the presentation’s content.

“Part of the presentation involved a man talking about his genitals, alongside a photo of a rocket, and he states, and I quote, ‘No Viagra needed’.

“The presentation also includes a photo of a man when he was naked as a child. The presentation also talks about transgender bathroom issues and supporting men in women’s spaces.”

Ms Asghar asked the First Minister how the Welsh Government will ensure public bodies are following the law and “protecting women’s spaces”.

Noting the Supreme Court decision was not “a victory of one side over another”, the First Minister expressed the need for political leadership.

He said: “She [Ms Asghar] mentions ‘concerned members of staff’. We hear from very concerned trans people who feel that they are being disempowered and put at risk, even, by the current debate.

“And that, I think, is where political leadership comes from. I can’t comment on the particular material that she mentioned because I’m not aware of what it is. But that Supreme Court ruling wasn’t a victory of one side over another.

“I was listening at the time when the judgment was given. What it did usher in was a new era of the need for greater understanding between people who have divergent views.

“All of us have to be aware of that in trying to cool down the temperature on what has become a heated debate but also a very painful debate for many individuals.”

The First Minister was also quizzed on his government’s position on puberty blockers for under-18s, by Reform MS Paul Marr.

Mr ap Iorwerth said: “Where clinically appropriate, puberty suppressing hormones can be prescribed for children in Wales who started treatment prior to the UK Government’s order restricting their prescribing other than through the NHS, and to children accessing NHS gender services, as part of the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence research study when that commences.”

The First Minister said gender identity services in Wales will continue to be “led by the evidence.”

Suggesting the Cass Review highlights “significant uncertainties” around the “long-term safety” of puberty blockers, Mr Marr pressed the First Minister on the “specific steps” his government will take to ensure that “vulnerable young people are not subject to avoidable harm”.

Mr ap Iorwerth informed the Reform MS that the author of the Cass review is supportive of that research.

Mr ap Iorwerth added: “This is a careful study, an academic study, that is about reducing harm to children and young people.

“I would have thought that that is something that, as a whole, we would eager to sign up to.”