FM questioned on devolution, defence, budgets, and misinformation

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Rhun ap Iorwerth fielded questions on further devolution, budget decisions, and misinformation, at this week’s First Minister’s Questions.

Mr ap Iorwerth also answered questions on defence ahead of Armed Forces Day on Saturday June 27.

Opposition leader Dan Thomas, of Reform, clashed with the First Minister over further devolution for Wales.

Describing devolution as a “distraction”, Mr Thomas called on his Plaid Cymru counterpart to share why his priorities were “so out of touch” with the Welsh public.

He said: “On the campaign trail, nobody said to me they wanted rail or the crown estate or justice devolved. They were concerned about the NHS, education, and transport.”

In response, the First Minister said he was “rather surprised that this party [Reform], that was meant now to embrace devolution and want to make it work for Wales, is now openly coming out and saying they are effectively against devolution.”

Mr ap Iorwerth said young people in particular “absolutely understand the injustice of HS2” and explained: “If we had devolution of rail and the funding that comes with it we could build infrastructure that could give our young people a future here in Wales, because we’re investing in the things that matter to them.”

Mr ap Iorwerth went on to say that Plaid Cymru often faces accusations of being “obsessed” with the constitution and devolution, but said they are instead obsessed with “doing the right thing for Wales”.

He continued: “It’s not devolution at fault, it’s the fact that we have governments that haven’t made the right decisions. We now have a change of government. Look to this one to see how we change direction for Wales.”

“Aircraft carriers”

Ken Skates, interim leader of Welsh Labour, was met with laughter when he opened his questions to the First Minister by thanking Sir Keir Starmer – who yesterday announced his intention to resign as Prime Minister.

Mr Skates went on to question the First Minister on his attitudes towards NATO: “This week, of course, is Armed Forces Week, and we’ll be paying tribute to and respecting our Armed Forces community.

“On Saturday, of course, it is Armed Forces Day itself. Could you clarify: do you believe that, in or out of the UK, you would like to see Wales as a full member of NATO?”

The First Minister responded: “Neither I nor my party has ever advocated or suggested that the UK should pull out of NATO. It’s never been the position of my party nor of my government now, whatever some people may wish to represent.

“I believe in the principle and the practice of close integration when it comes to seeking peace. I believe that NATO, at this time of heightened tensions internationally, plays an important role.

“It would of course be for an independent Wales, in years to come, to decide on what kind of association or membership it would have with NATO. But, in terms of my position, it’s as clear as that: NATO plays a very important role, and there’s never been a suggestion that we would somehow call for the UK to withdraw from it.”

Mr Skates then pressed the First Minister on whether he supports cuts to defence spending, including cuts to spending on cyber-security.

He said: “First Minister […] in the past, you’ve said, and I quote, ‘I don’t reckon the population of Wales would feel inclined to spend on aircraft carriers.’

“Now, as you said, we now live in one of the most volatile periods any of us has ever experienced, and you’re calling, and consistently calling, for drastic cuts in defence spending.

“Is that still your position? And do you believe that drastic cuts in defence should include cuts in cyber security, which keeps our democracy here in Wales safe from hostile threats from abroad?”

Addressing the quote about aircraft carriers, Mr ap Iorwerth clarified that it is the title of a book – How many aircraft carriers would an independent Wales need? – the answer, he said, is none.

He continued: “I recognise, and my government recognises, that we face changing threats, that we face very real threats, and that at those times there needs to be recognition of the need to invest properly in conventional defence.

“And nowadays, that very much includes cyber warfare, which, in a hybrid way, is already happening around us. So, in those terms, yes, I recognise the need to invest.”

The First Minister clarified, however, that he does not believe it is right for the UK Government to make unilateral decisions on issues that affect Wales its own right.

“Sticking plaster approach”

The Welsh Government published today, Tuesday June 23, its first supplementary budget, setting out its spending plans for 2026/27.

A supplementary budget is a formal legislative proposal that allows in-year adjustments and new spending allocations to the Welsh Government’s previously agreed budget.

Referring to the extra money promised to the NHS in the budget – £145 million – the Welsh Conservatives leader, Darren Millar, told the Siambr Wales does not need simply a “sticking-plaster approach” to the NHS.

He called on the First Minister to “guarantee” the funding allocation specified in the supplementary budget would “permanently reduce waiting times in Wales”.

Mr ap Iorwerth agreed with the Conservative leader, saying that in recent years Wales has seen numerous “sticking plaster solutions” when what it needed was long-term solutions.

He said: “We made this a priority through the election campaign, and we’re doing it now in government – that it’s not just about bringing down waiting times and saying, ‘Phew, right, what next?’

“This is about making sure that we put the steps in place now that bring down the waiting times in a way that builds capacity in order to stop the waiting times from increasing again.

“Now, do I give concrete guarantees? Well, how far do we go in politics? But I tell you that that is exactly what we are aiming to do and what my minister is spending every waking hour and, I’m sure, some sleeping hours thinking about too.”

Mr Millar also quizzed the First Minister on the lack of funding allocated to supporting pupils across Wales with additional learning needs (ALN).

The Conservative leader said: “In spite of the fact that hundreds of millions of pounds have come to Wales as a direct consequence of spending on special educational needs in England, not a single extra penny [is] being allocated to support additional learning needs pupils here in Wales.

“Why aren’t you going to wake up and realise that they are as much of a priority as some of the other things that you are allocating cash to?”

Noting that he “absolutely recognises the seriousness” of the ALN issue, the First Minister said a “one-off payment” will not resolve the problems.

He continued: “This has to be a sustainable solution, building up over the next few years to have a system that works for families, that works for local authorities.

“The education minister is already working on that sustainable solution, which is really what we want, rather than quick fixes, which the member said wasn’t what he wanted either.”

“Strong and cohesive communities”

Plaid Cymru’s Kiera Marshall questioned the First Minister on how he plans to combat misinformation and disinformation about asylum seekers, refugees, and migrants.

Her question comes after last week’s FMQs which saw significant controversy over the conduct of members in the Siambr, with Reform’s Joe Martin criticised over his comments on asylum seekers and the Nation of Sanctuary scheme.

Having attended a seven-a-side football match to mark Refugee Week with teams from Ukraine, Afghanistan, Iraq, and more, Ms Marshall noted the importance of communities “coming together as one”.

The Caerdydd Penarth MS said: “There is often a gap between public perception and the reality when it comes to the asylum system.”

Ms Marshall called on the First Minister to share how the Welsh Government plans to ensure public debate about the asylum system is informed by accurate information and “supports strong and cohesive communities”.

She also pressed Mr ap Iorwerth to confirm if he agrees that “all elected representatives and public figures have a responsibility to challenge misinformation and ensure debate is grounded in fact and evidence.”

Mr ap Iorwerth said that in practical terms his government is working closely with both local authorities and the Home Office to ensure that misinformation is quickly spotted, and the Home Office is asked to rectify anything harmful.

He added: “While immigration policy is reserved to the UK Government, cohesion policy is not.

“We have committed to doing all that we can to foster cohesion within our communities, to support fair, safe, and united communities.

“All of us as leaders bare a responsibility to ensure discourse is based on fact and not on encouraging the breakdown of cohesion within our communities.”