The Caerphilly constituency General Election candidates came to blows in a feisty hustings organised by Caerphilly Trades Council yesterday, April 29.
Issues raised by the audience of more than 60 residents included the ‘Bedroom Tax’ and welfare reform, the European Union, funding for Wales, the rise in food bank use, nationalising public transport and the extension of the right to buy scheme.
Labour’s Wayne David, Jaime Davies of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition (TUSC), Leo Docherty for the Conservatives, Sam Gould for Ukip and Rebecca Newton for Plaid all gave their case for why they should be elected on May 7.
Katy Beddoe of the Green Party was represented by Elspeth Parris, candidate for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, while Aladdin Ayesh of the Liberal Democrats was not present but did provide statement.
The candidates on the whole rejected the austerity measures of the Government over the last five years, with TUSC’s Jaime Davies questioning Ukip’s Sam Gould’s anti-‘Bedroom Tax’ and NHS ‘privatisation’ stance.
Mr Davies said: “Even Nigel Farage has said if Thatcher was alive now she would join Ukip. At least Leo (Docherty) is an honest Tory.”
Labour’s Wayne David opened saying this election will “determine the shape and direction of this country for years to come”.
He said: “The ordinary people of this country are paying for the crisis caused by the bankers and capitalist crisis.”
Mr Docherty faced heckles from the audience when he defended Conservative policy over the last five years.
He said: “The Government over the last five years has bought the economy back from the absolute brink. We must not let Labour break what we achieved.”
Mr Docherty said that the Government’s welfare reform is “extremely fair” and that the Conservatives are “determined to make work pay”.
Plaid’s Rebecca Newton claimed welfare reform hit the poorest hardest.
She said: “They are taking away the very simple, basic things in life like food and shelter. The only bank that a Tory doesn’t care about is food banks and we’ve seen the use of food banks double.
“We are punishing people just for being children and in this constituency 27% of children live below the poverty line.”
The Greens, Plaid, TUSC, Labour and Ukip called for the ‘Bedroom Tax’ to be scrapped.
Labour’s Mr David called for a “fairer benefit system”, and was asked by the TUSC candidate why the Welsh Government had not already scrapped the ‘Bedroom Tax’, as the SNP did in Scotland.
The Green’s Elspeth Parris said they would also scrap the Work Capability Assessment, Universal Credit, end benefit sanctions, scrap ‘Workfare’ and create a Citizen’s Income.
Mr Docherty criticised the Welsh Government over the NHS, questioning why money had been spent on nationalising Cardiff Airport.
Mr David said Labour are against the ‘privatisation’ of the NHS and said a Mansion Tax on properties worth £2m or more would help fund this, as well as limiting non-dom status.
He clarified that there would be no properties in Caerphilly affected by the Mansion Tax and said: “We are in favour of a redistribution of wealth. That’s the theory behind the NHS.”
Sam Gould was derided by Rebecca Newton when he called for EU migrants and other immigrants to be charged health insurance to use the NHS.
Mrs Newton said: “I’m a firefighter and I don’t care where you come from when I’m going to save your life because you’re a person.”
She called for equal funding with Scotland to help the NHS in Wales saying “we have 50% less GPs than Scotland, that’s why people are going to A&E they cant get an appointment”.
Ms Parris claimed health spending needed to be directed to the right places.
She said: “The NHS costs more in rural areas and places where people have poor health.”
On the question of the Barnett Formula, with the exception of Mr Docherty, all called for reform.
TUSC’s Jaime Davies said: “We need to fight in our trade unions and communities and fight for more funding from Westminster.”
Mrs Newton and Mr David called for the top rate of tax to be returned to 50p, Ms Parris 60p, while Mr Gould said it should be 40p at £55,000, then staggered up.
On the question of Europe the Green and Conservative representatives called for an in/out referendum, Ukip support withdrawal, whilst Labour and Plaid Cymru rallied in support of membership.
Mr David and Mrs Newton both claimed Wales gets more money than it gives to the EU and the South Wales Valleys benefit greatly from EU funding.
The conservatives’ extension of right to buy to allow housing associations to sell of housing stock cheaply was criticised and Mr Docherty defended privatisation of transport amid calls for re-nationalisation.
The traditional vote at the end of the hustings was abandoned after audience members spoke against the process.
Not very impressed, it was more a Labour Party Election meeting. The Trades Council selected the questions, and the local AM was allowed to give a Party Political Speech for about five minutes in the shapebof a question. The Conservative seemed to forget that Wales is an economic basket case, because all
the wealth created in the 19th and early 20th century finished up in London. Jaime Davies of the Trades Union and Socialist Coalition was good, as was Beci Newton of Plaid and Kate Beddoe of the Greens. If those three could unite they would expose the Labour Party for the pink Tory clones they are, they have supported the Austerity programmer with great enthusiasm. J M Keynes in the thirties exposed the fallacy of austerity, and two articles in the Guardian and New Statesman this week have repeated his message. Still that’s the price we paybin Caerphilly for living in a Rotten Borough, run by the Labour party, my grand mother would turn in her grave to see how the party she loved as turned out.
Did you watch the same debate?
Jaime Davies was terrible. He was incoherent, incompetent at public speaking, did not analyse his points, and had very little content apart from his fascination over a living wage and austerity. I lost all respect for the Plaid candidate when she blamed suicide on welfare cuts. Such a silly comment shows he immaturity. She was also nervous, largely incoherent, not very forceful and would make a terrible MP. The Green lady did not say any Green party policy apart from the living wage; even then it was not costed.
The winner, by far, was Wayne David with Sam and the Tory in joint second. Then again, I would expect Wayne to win with his experience. I think your political leaning is clouding your views.
Not very impressed, it was more a Labour Party Election meeting. The Trades Council selected the questions, and the local AM was allowed to give a Party Political Speech for about five minutes in the shapebof a question. The Conservative seemed to forget that Wales is an economic basket case, because all
the wealth created in the 19th and early 20th century finished up in London. Jaime Davies of the Trades Union and Socialist Coalition was good, as was Beci Newton of Plaid and Kate Beddoe of the Greens. If those three could unite they would expose the Labour Party for the pink Tory clones they are, they have supported the Austerity programmer with great enthusiasm. J M Keynes in the thirties exposed the fallacy of austerity, and two articles in the Guardian and New Statesman this week have repeated his message. Still that’s the price we paybin Caerphilly for living in a Rotten Borough, run by the Labour party, my grand mother would turn in her grave to see how the party she loved as turned out.
Did you watch the same debate?
Jaime Davies was terrible. He was incoherent, incompetent at public speaking, did not analyse his points, and had very little content apart from his fascination over a living wage and austerity. I lost all respect for the Plaid candidate when she blamed suicide on welfare cuts. Such a silly comment shows he immaturity. She was also nervous, largely incoherent, not very forceful and would make a terrible MP. The Green lady did not say any Green party policy apart from the living wage; even then it was not costed.
The winner, by far, was Wayne David with Sam and the Tory in joint second. Then again, I would expect Wayne to win with his experience. I think your political leaning is clouding your views.
I was at the hustings as an audience member and can agree with some of John Owen’s comments. The establishment parties were well represented in the audience as were the old SWP, I recognised many faces from previous elections.
Elspeth Parris, representing the Green candidate, was very good and I think that is who John has confused with Katy Beddoe, who was not there. I rated her the best speaker present, with Sam Gould second. Wayne David would have tied with Sam Gould in my ratings had he not abruptly left, impatient with the voting farce at the end. Jaime Davies and Leo Docherty delivered solid performances, Rebecca Newton was weak and Aladdin Ayesh of the Lib Dems did not appear or appoint an understudy. These are my ratings based on performance, not necessarily the political content of their answers.
Regarding austerity everybody is against it for themselves but like it imposed on others. The workers want it to hit the rich and the bankers, the rich, the bankers and the unelected EU elite want it to hit the poor.
All in all it was an entertaining couple of hours which I enjoyed and I was also able to meet and chat with my old debating adversary Cllr. Hefin David. I wish there were more public debates like this where people can let off steam against the politicians and maybe also have their views, conditioned by the news media, modified by what the politicians have to say ‘live’ and not reduced to sound bites.
I agree with you on some things but not on everything.
Jaime Davies was terribly repetitive, his speech had no solid content apart from personal opinions and dream-world economics when talking about paying for a minimum wage. When challenged by an audience member about how small companies would pay their workers more he mentioned Seattle without telling us Seattle saw a large increase in unemployment as a result. His response to a fantastic question about the EU did not make sense either. Overall, he seemed unsure of his own party’s manifesto, was terrible at public speaking, and was the candidate that caused people to switch off. He is, however, a nice person and if his views were not extreme I would vote for him.
Did you really like the Green candidate? Her speeches were coherent but she did not answer any questions or convey anything. For example, a question asked if the EU was value for money and her response was about how democratic it was. I also thought she talked a lot about the situations but only mentioned one Green policy on how it would fix the problem. Even then the Green policy was not costed or articulated well.
The Plaid candidate showed her inexperience and immaturity when she made the deplorable accusation of welfare cuts causing suicide. To think she criticised UKIP for wanting foreigners to have health insurance…
What was the obsession with the unworkable living wage though?
I agree with your ratings apart from your placement of the Green candidate. I would also put Wayne David above Sam slightly since Sam did lots of reading from the manifesto which gave the impression he was unsure of party policy. Then again, with years of experience I expect Wayne to excel at addressing the public. I think he was thrown a bit by that wonderful EU question. He became quite shouty in his reply and the person at the front talking about immigrants only added to his frustration. The Tory needs a fair position too since he spoke well and was always going to be slaughtered by a Labour audience.
I never realised how rude most of Caerphilly was, especially when they shout over the Conservative candidate before he has even spoken. And Jeff with that statement/question/speech/essay/novel, well…
Yes, Jaime was terribly repetive but allowing a handicap for being young I think he could go home reasonably satisfied. Regarding Elspeth Parris, yes there was something likable about her, anybody who can make a coherent argument with the ridiculous Green manifesto has got to be impressive which is why I rate her highly. By the way the Green manifesto 25 years ago made a lot more sense, reduction of population of Britain to manageble levels (40 million was their target then) and several other things made them an attractive party in those days for those who rated life quality above financial well being. This is not the case now, their manifesto is dangerous.
The Plaid candidate was poor, I can excuse her inexperience but she was often rude, which is not forgivable in someone who wishes to represent me at Westminster. Her comparison with attending a fire with a health tourist who comes to Britain for free treatment paid for by people on minimal wages was execrable. Twice reduced to speechless panic she would be chewed up by parliamenterians in London. A little bit more civility and humility will serve her well if she wants to pursue a political career of any sort. I think she will improve, as she had the grace to apologise for one rant, something that not all councillors are capable of.
Sam actually only read once from manifesto as he freely admitted that he was incapable of improving on the form of words. His performance was strong and he remained civil and calm despite a contingent in the audience who wished to disrupt him whatever he said. I would have no qualms if he represented Caerffili at Westminster.
Wayne performed strongly, as one would expect from a politician of his experience. You are quite right that he was visibly discomfited by questions on the undemocratic EU and mass immigration, both are subjects that are ruled non negotiable by the Labour party brass hats.
Leo Docherty, the Tory, was solid and calm despite an audience that was hostile. I suspect he prepared mentally for a Daniel in the Lion’s den hour and came out pretty well. I understand he has seen action with the army and certainly was calm under fire.
Finally, Jeff Cuthbert’s monologue was the fault of the chair who should have intervened. Pretty non productive anyway as anyone who witnessed it who is a floating voter would have promptly decided to vote for one of the other parties rather than Labour.
I am still wondering whether Jeff Cuthbert was experiencing an issue or crisis of some sort on Wednesday evening, for besides the fact that he did not seem to comprehend how to construct a question his monologue was more of a confused rambling that a coherent statement. How can this man be capable of representing an area facing so many complex challenges?
Possibly, though perhaps it is a symptom of a single party controlling council, Welsh assembly and Westminster seat. This is unhealthy in a democracy and I have found the same thing on Caerffili Town Council where Plaid have controlled everything since its inception and resent any contrary view.
Thankfully a change was wrought by Ed Talbot, the late (and much missed) Lee Jones and I who started to make the council a little bit more democratic. Since we were elected Labour councillors Jamie Pritchard, Gareth Pratt and Shayne Cook have also been elected which makes the council representative for the very first time. I look forward to welcoming Nathan Ives of UKIP as the newest councillor following the by-election this week.
Am I correct in reading into Councillor Richard Williams Comment, that a coalition of UKIP Independent, and Labour Town Councillors will address any historic issues of hitherto ` unheathy domocratic decisions` taken in the recent past by this Council and which `new` Councillors may feel have not been taken in the particular interest of ratepayers of the town, particulalry where those decisions have involved huge, ongoing, monthly expenditure, for no return on that public money?.
I am particularly wondering if he feels any new council which holds the majority on the Town Council will consider handing the entire Twyn Community Centre back to the people of the town? to use for community purposes?, including the rooms, storage spaces, and other facilities currently being used three half days a week, by the town council, but denied to ratepayers at any time?,
The use of the Twyn Communty centre as a base for the Town Council is a good starting point for a more representative council to tackle I cannot speak for the other councillors but I would certainly support any initiative to return all of this building to community use.
As a better mix of parties (there used to be only one party, Plaid) now attend meetings this may well a decison that the council takes when the current lease agreement ends.
I wonder why he thought he had the right to turn up late, buttvin and try vto make a speech rather than askna question.
I was at the hustings as an audience member and can agree with some of John Owen’s comments. The establishment parties were well represented in the audience as were the old SWP, I recognised many faces from previous elections.
Elspeth Parris, representing the Green candidate, was very good and I think that is who John has confused with Katy Beddoe, who was not there. I rated her the best speaker present, with Sam Gould second. Wayne David would have tied with Sam Gould in my ratings had he not abruptly left, impatient with the voting farce at the end. Jaime Davies and Leo Docherty delivered solid performances, Rebecca Newton was weak and Aladdin Ayesh of the Lib Dems did not appear or appoint an understudy. These are my ratings based on performance, not necessarily the political content of their answers.
Regarding austerity everybody is against it for themselves but like it imposed on others. The workers want it to hit the rich and the bankers, the rich, the bankers and the unelected EU elite want it to hit the poor.
All in all it was an entertaining couple of hours which I enjoyed and I was also able to meet and chat with my old debating adversary Cllr. Hefin David. I wish there were more public debates like this where people can let off steam against the politicians and maybe also have their views, conditioned by the news media, modified by what the politicians have to say ‘live’ and not reduced to sound bites.
I agree with you on some things but not on everything.
Jaime Davies was terribly repetitive, his speech had no solid content apart from personal opinions and dream-world economics when talking about paying for a minimum wage. When challenged by an audience member about how small companies would pay their workers more he mentioned Seattle without telling us Seattle saw a large increase in unemployment as a result. His response to a fantastic question about the EU did not make sense either. Overall, he seemed unsure of his own party’s manifesto, was terrible at public speaking, and was the candidate that caused people to switch off. He is, however, a nice person and if his views were not extreme I would vote for him.
Did you really like the Green candidate? Her speeches were coherent but she did not answer any questions or convey anything. For example, a question asked if the EU was value for money and her response was about how democratic it was. I also thought she talked a lot about the situations but only mentioned one Green policy on how it would fix the problem. Even then the Green policy was not costed or articulated well.
The Plaid candidate showed her inexperience and immaturity when she made the deplorable accusation of welfare cuts causing suicide. To think she criticised UKIP for wanting foreigners to have health insurance…
What was the obsession with the unworkable living wage though?
I agree with your ratings apart from your placement of the Green candidate. I would also put Wayne David above Sam slightly since Sam did lots of reading from the manifesto which gave the impression he was unsure of party policy. Then again, with years of experience I expect Wayne to excel at addressing the public. I think he was thrown a bit by that wonderful EU question. He became quite shouty in his reply and the person at the front talking about immigrants only added to his frustration. The Tory needs a fair position too since he spoke well and was always going to be slaughtered by a Labour audience.
I never realised how rude most of Caerphilly was, especially when they shout over the Conservative candidate before he has even spoken. And Jeff with that statement/question/speech/essay/novel, well…
Yes, Jaime was terribly repetive but allowing a handicap for being young I think he could go home reasonably satisfied. Regarding Elspeth Parris, yes there was something likable about her, anybody who can make a coherent argument with the ridiculous Green manifesto has got to be impressive which is why I rate her highly. By the way the Green manifesto 25 years ago made a lot more sense, reduction of population of Britain to manageble levels (40 million was their target then) and several other things made them an attractive party in those days for those who rated life quality above financial well being. This is not the case now, their manifesto is dangerous.
The Plaid candidate was poor, I can excuse her inexperience but she was often rude, which is not forgivable in someone who wishes to represent me at Westminster. Her comparison with attending a fire with a health tourist who comes to Britain for free treatment paid for by people on minimal wages was execrable. Twice reduced to speechless panic she would be chewed up by parliamenterians in London. A little bit more civility and humility will serve her well if she wants to pursue a political career of any sort. I think she will improve, as she had the grace to apologise for one rant, something that not all councillors are capable of.
Sam actually only read once from manifesto as he freely admitted that he was incapable of improving on the form of words. His performance was strong and he remained civil and calm despite a contingent in the audience who wished to disrupt him whatever he said. I would have no qualms if he represented Caerffili at Westminster.
Wayne performed strongly, as one would expect from a politician of his experience. You are quite right that he was visibly discomfited by questions on the undemocratic EU and mass immigration, both are subjects that are ruled non negotiable by the Labour party brass hats.
Leo Docherty, the Tory, was solid and calm despite an audience that was hostile. I suspect he prepared mentally for a Daniel in the Lion’s den hour and came out pretty well. I understand he has seen action with the army and certainly was calm under fire.
Finally, Jeff Cuthbert’s monologue was the fault of the chair who should have intervened. Pretty non productive anyway as anyone who witnessed it who is a floating voter would have promptly decided to vote for one of the other parties rather than Labour.
I am still wondering whether Jeff Cuthbert was experiencing an issue or crisis of some sort on Wednesday evening, for besides the fact that he did not seem to comprehend how to construct a question his monologue was more of a confused rambling that a coherent statement. How can this man be capable of representing an area facing so many complex challenges?
Possibly, though perhaps it is a symptom of a single party controlling council, Welsh assembly and Westminster seat. This is unhealthy in a democracy and I have found the same thing on Caerffili Town Council where Plaid have controlled everything since its inception and resent any contrary view.
Thankfully a change was wrought by Ed Talbot, the late (and much missed) Lee Jones and I who started to make the council a little bit more democratic. Since we were elected Labour councillors Jamie Pritchard, Gareth Pratt and Shayne Cook have also been elected which makes the council representative for the very first time. I look forward to welcoming Nathan Ives of UKIP as the newest councillor following the by-election this week.
Am I correct in reading into Councillor Richard Williams Comment, that a coalition of UKIP Independent, and Labour Town Councillors will address any historic issues of hitherto ` unheathy domocratic decisions` taken in the recent past by this Council and which `new` Councillors may feel have not been taken in the particular interest of ratepayers of the town, particulalry where those decisions have involved huge, ongoing, monthly expenditure, for no return on that public money?.
I am particularly wondering if he feels any new council which holds the majority on the Town Council will consider handing the entire Twyn Community Centre back to the people of the town? to use for community purposes?, including the rooms, storage spaces, and other facilities currently being used three half days a week, by the town council, but denied to ratepayers at any time?,
The use of the Twyn Communty centre as a base for the Town Council is a good starting point for a more representative council to tackle I cannot speak for the other councillors but I would certainly support any initiative to return all of this building to community use.
As a better mix of parties (there used to be only one party, Plaid) now attend meetings this may well a decison that the council takes when the current lease agreement ends.
I wonder why he thought he had the right to turn up late, buttvin and try vto make a speech rather than askna question.
I too was not impressed by last night’s meeting. Firstly, it was not managed well and the Chair allowed a rather vocal audience to over talk some panellists. I went there with an open mind to give all candidates a fair hearing. Sadly, some audience members used it for their own agenda.
Only a few candidates inspired me.
Wayne David has had his opportunity and with Labour in power for 13 years prior to this coalition government has nothing to show for his tenure ship. Wales, under Labour has not economically developed and still relies on handouts from the European Union. However, his disciples in the audience provided him with moral support, in particular Jeff Cuthbert, who embarrassingly didn’t know the definition of a question and used the time to express his views in an incoherent ramble.
Although Wayne appeared confident and articulate his arguments lacked factual evidence and substance, which was worrying for the existing MP.
Jaime Davies was passionate, clearly enthusiastic but his arguments became repetitive. Although he put forward some good arguments again they lacked any degree of factual evidence.
Leo Docherty, unfortunately, was on a hiding to nothing. The audience were not prepared to give him an opportunity to express his views, and even though there was mileage in some of his arguments, he was not forceful and influential enough to push home that advantage.
Beci Newton, however, was out of her league. I was embarrassed for her as she was not able to clearly articulate any argument. It was cringe worthy and not convincing. Enough said sadly. You could not imagine her representing Caerphilly in Westminster. It would be lambs to the slaughter.
Sam Gould was convincing, dynamic and it showed he believed
in his convictions. His inexperience was obvious (similar to Jaime and Beci)
but he put forward common sense arguments. Sadly, his views were not well received by the majority of the Labour led audience. As the saying goes, common sense is not that common. And it showed last night.
Wayne David appeared not to be happy with some of the questions, particularly those concerning Europe. I felt his increased level of
animation was a consequence of his failure to answer the question adequately. I felt the Tory and UKIP candidates answered them well in comparison.
I too was not impressed by last night’s meeting. Firstly, it was not managed well and the Chair allowed a rather vocal audience to over talk some panellists. I went there with an open mind to give all candidates a fair hearing. Sadly, some audience members used it for their own agenda.
Only a few candidates inspired me.
Wayne David has had his opportunity and with Labour in power for 13 years prior to this coalition government has nothing to show for his tenure ship. Wales, under Labour has not economically developed and still relies on handouts from the European Union. However, his disciples in the audience provided him with moral support, in particular Jeff Cuthbert, who embarrassingly didn’t know the definition of a question and used the time to express his views in an incoherent ramble.
Although Wayne appeared confident and articulate his arguments lacked factual evidence and substance, which was worrying for the existing MP.
Jaime Davies was passionate, clearly enthusiastic but his arguments became repetitive. Although he put forward some good arguments again they lacked any degree of factual evidence.
Leo Docherty, unfortunately, was on a hiding to nothing. The audience were not prepared to give him an opportunity to express his views, and even though there was mileage in some of his arguments, he was not forceful and influential enough to push home that advantage.
Beci Newton, however, was out of her league. I was embarrassed for her as she was not able to clearly articulate any argument. It was cringe worthy and not convincing. Enough said sadly. You could not imagine her representing Caerphilly in Westminster. It would be lambs to the slaughter.
Sam Gould was convincing, dynamic and it showed he believed
in his convictions. His inexperience was obvious (similar to Jaime and Beci)
but he put forward common sense arguments. Sadly, his views were not well received by the majority of the Labour led audience. As the saying goes, common sense is not that common. And it showed last night.
Wayne David appeared not to be happy with some of the questions, particularly those concerning Europe. I felt his increased level of
animation was a consequence of his failure to answer the question adequately. I felt the Tory and UKIP candidates answered them well in comparison.
I’d agree with Richard about my confusion over the name of the Green Candidate, a senior moment. Yes there seemed to be an SWP presence, but in the same way the Holy Roman Empire was not Holy or Roman, the SWP are not Socialists or Workers. Jaime was a good speaker and I understood his point of view. The trouble is the Left are so divided, with neo Stalinists defining what it is to be Left, what boxes to tick, which puts a lot of other more pragmatic Left wingers off.Beci Newton did seem a little unsettled, but I thought her arguments were valid, and will
improve. Sadly the Labour party talks about being anti austerity, but to quote Paul Krugman in yesterday’s Guardian,” From a US perspective, it is astonishing to witness the limpness of Labour’s response to the austerity push”. In view of the work of JM Keynes in the 1949s, it is hard to believe that the Labour Party hasn’t the courage to say Austerity is Voodoo economics, and have the guts to take on the Tories. The big problem in south Wales is lack of well paid jobs, we should always remember it was the Tories under Thatcher, shut the collieries, decimated the steel industry and destroyed manufacturing in South Wales, I know cos I was there when it happened. No doubt Wayne David will win the election, but the prospect of someone who supports HS2 because it will be good for the north of England, shouldn’t hold a seat in Wales. The best thing you can say aboutbjim is that he’s not Stephen Kinnock, one Kinnock was a disaster, didn’t support the miners, not to upset the SE of England.
John
– the slow demise of coal mining has been a tragedy
for many communities, and the cause of much suffering. But more mines were
closed during Harold Wilson’s two terms in office than in Thatcher’s three.
I’d agree with Richard about my confusion over the name of the Green Candidate, a senior moment. Yes there seemed to be an SWP presence, but in the same way the Holy Roman Empire was not Holy or Roman, the SWP are not Socialists or Workers. Jaime was a good speaker and I understood his point of view. The trouble is the Left are so divided, with neo Stalinists defining what it is to be Left, what boxes to tick, which puts a lot of other more pragmatic Left wingers off.Beci Newton did seem a little unsettled, but I thought her arguments were valid, and will
improve. Sadly the Labour party talks about being anti austerity, but to quote Paul Krugman in yesterday’s Guardian,” From a US perspective, it is astonishing to witness the limpness of Labour’s response to the austerity push”. In view of the work of JM Keynes in the 1949s, it is hard to believe that the Labour Party hasn’t the courage to say Austerity is Voodoo economics, and have the guts to take on the Tories. The big problem in south Wales is lack of well paid jobs, we should always remember it was the Tories under Thatcher, shut the collieries, decimated the steel industry and destroyed manufacturing in South Wales, I know cos I was there when it happened. No doubt Wayne David will win the election, but the prospect of someone who supports HS2 because it will be good for the north of England, shouldn’t hold a seat in Wales. The best thing you can say aboutbjim is that he’s not Stephen Kinnock, one Kinnock was a disaster, didn’t support the miners, not to upset the SE of England.
John – the slow demise of coal mining has been a tragedy for many communities, and the cause of much suffering. But more mines were closed during Harold Wilson’s two terms in office than in Thatcher’s three.
So the Lib-Dems didn’t turn up? Crikey that’s a bit cheeky. Not going to make inroads like that.
I must admit I do enjoy Goulds enthusiasm and his purple land rover.
I should of been in attendance as an interested member of the public, I will make more effort in future I think.
So the Lib-Dems didn’t turn up? Crikey that’s a bit cheeky. Not going to make inroads like that.
I must admit I do enjoy Goulds enthusiasm and his purple land rover.
I should of been in attendance as an interested member of the public, I will make more effort in future I think.
As an attendee at this very interesting meeting I am greatly disappointed by the poor quality of the report/article printed above, which does not reflect the dynamics of the meeting well at all. Horrible reporting! What I found interesting was that there was a lot in common between the candidates with the exception of Conservative Leo Docherty. I found myself in agreement with several things that each candidate said except for Wayne David who somehow managed to insult the intelligence of the audience on a couple of occasions.
I felt that Beci Newton had been badly let down by her party. Where were misters Whittle, Bevan, Prew, Mann and so on who should have been tutoring her on how to conduct herself during a public event? She was ill prepared and performed the worst out of the candidates by a considerable margin. Unfortunately she is not MP material and can no longer be considered a serious candidate. On those occasions when she completely froze and lost her train of thought, Beci received more comfort and encouragement from the group of UKIP supporting attendees and candidate Sam Gould than anyone else in the room.
What I was really concerned about was the lack of any discussion as to how Caerphilly is going to break its dependency on other people’s money, be that money received from Westminster or Europe (which is all ours anyway minus a 50% administration fee). Surely we need to be working on how to generate wealth here in Caerphilly with which to build the society that we wish to live in. We need a vision people!! From that vision we need to formulate a plan or nothing is going to get any better here for us or our children. If we continue to vote for politicians that lack vision, other than getting themselves re-elected, nothing is going to change. Get positive people.
As an attendee at this very interesting meeting I am greatly disappointed by the poor quality of the report/article printed above, which does not reflect the dynamics of the meeting well at all. Horrible reporting! What I found interesting was that there was a lot in common between the candidates with the exception of Conservative Leo Docherty. I found myself in agreement with several things that each candidate said except for Wayne David who somehow managed to insult the intelligence of the audience on a couple of occasions.
I felt that Beci Newton had been badly let down by her party. Where were misters Whittle, Bevan, Prew, Mann and so on who should have been tutoring her on how to conduct herself during a public event? She was ill prepared and performed the worst out of the candidates by a considerable margin. Unfortunately she is not MP material and can no longer be considered a serious candidate. On those occasions when she completely froze and lost her train of thought, Beci received more comfort and encouragement from the group of UKIP supporting attendees and candidate Sam Gould than anyone else in the room.
What I was really concerned about was the lack of any discussion as to how Caerphilly is going to break its dependency on other people’s money, be that money received from Westminster or Europe (which is all ours anyway minus a 50% administration fee). Surely we need to be working on how to generate wealth here in Caerphilly with which to build the society that we wish to live in. We need a vision people!! From that vision we need to formulate a plan or nothing is going to get any better here for us or our children. If we continue to vote for politicians that lack vision, other than getting themselves re-elected, nothing is going to change. Get positive people.
Yes Edward, I know that, I started work in 1966, and saw the coal industry,and its supply train begin to collapse around me, but Thatcher catalyzed the 84 coal strike with the aim of destroying the NUM and the coal industry. She succeeded, and went on to do the same to steel and manufacturing on south Wales. There was a deliberate policy to switch to the service ssector, like banking and finance, the same people who almost brought down the economy in 20082009. In addition she promoted the privatization of our nationalised sectors like water and power, so today we are are country in which all our essential services are owned by foreign companies, with the added irony that many of our railway companies are owned by the German State Railways.
Urgh! The bankers did not bring down the economy in 2008/9. The economy was brought down by a sudden lack of credit as bankers realised they had lent too much out. However, bankers do not lend money to themselves. It was the people who purchased a car they could not afford, or a home they could not pay the mortage on, and it was businesses who made dodgy investments. We could blame the banks for lending but let us also blame the individuals with poor financial sense who borrowed what they could not afford. The crash was mainly caused by people not wanting to live within their means.
Dean, I can see where you’re coming from but it appears to me that you are trying to place the entire blame of the financial crash of 2008/9 on the public. The logic behind your comment makes no sense whatsoever. If I were a recently released murderer from prison and applied for a gun license and was given one, and then purchased a gun and murdered someone with said gun, who’s fault would it be? The fault of the person who gave me the gun license/gun, or myself? Of course you would blame the person who issued the license. The same principle applies for the banking crisis; bankers should not have leant money to people who they knew couldn’t have possibly paid it back.
Whilst it would be unfair to pin the blame for the crash of the economy wholly on the Labour government at the time, it was indeed the Labour government that had a fairly lax regulation regime for the financial sector at the time, and it was this that caused the global financial crash to have a particularly damaging impact on the UK’s economy. It was also due to these lax regulations that other countries such as Canada and Australia did not suffer as badly as the UK. Ed Miliband has even apologised for the lax regulations that were in place at the time – he did so on the party leaders’ election debate about a month ago.
Your analogy is mad and completely different. A murdered just released from prison wanting to buy a gun is a case of a criminal wanting to break the law again. Maybe if someone committed for financial fraud and money laundering went to take out a loan your comparison could apply, but when we are talking about everyday people who should make a sensible decision about managing their household budgets we cannot compare. Of course it is not entirely the fault of the people, but at the same time the banker-bashing, Guardian-reading, Labour-voting, socialists are 100% wrong in blaming the crash on only bankers.
The lax legislation is purely concerning the requirement about keeping a level of capital or assets to balance out the lending. While the regulations on this were lax the big problem in the UK’s economy was also high public spending, high taxes on business, rent-seeking, and government intervention in private companies.
Dean, your last paragraph says it all. You agree that the regulations were lax, and also point out that public spending and taxes were high as well as government intervention being woefully dangerous. All of these issues were the fault of the Labour government at the time; therefore why blame Joe Bloggs of the public for something that was primarily the government’s fault? If loans and money were being handed out willy nilly would you too not take what you could?
I do not only blame one thing or group. I am not one of those extremists who only blame bankers, or only blame Labour, or only blame the public, I blame all four for the severity of Britain’s downturn.
Yes Edward, I know that, I started work in 1966, and saw the coal industry,and its supply train begin to collapse around me, but Thatcher catalyzed the 84 coal strike with the aim of destroying the NUM and the coal industry. She succeeded, and went on to do the same to steel and manufacturing on south Wales. There was a deliberate policy to switch to the service ssector, like banking and finance, the same people who almost brought down the economy in 20082009. In addition she promoted the privatization of our nationalised sectors like water and power, so today we are are country in which all our essential services are owned by foreign companies, with the added irony that many of our railway companies are owned by the German State Railways.
Urgh! The bankers did not bring down the economy in 2008/9. The economy was brought down by a sudden lack of credit as bankers realised they had lent too much out. However, bankers do not lend money to themselves. It was the people who purchased a car they could not afford, or a home they could not pay the mortage on, and it was businesses who made dodgy investments. We could blame the banks for lending but let us also blame the individuals with poor financial sense who borrowed what they could not afford. The crash was mainly caused by people not wanting to live within their means.
Dean, I can see where you’re coming from but it appears to me that you are trying to place the entire blame of the financial crash of 2008/9 on the public. The logic behind your comment makes no sense whatsoever. If I were a recently released murderer from prison and applied for a gun license and was given one, and then purchased a gun and murdered someone with said gun, who’s fault would it be? The fault of the person who gave me the gun license/gun, or myself? Of course you would blame the person who issued the license. The same principle applies for the banking crisis; bankers should not have leant money to people who they knew couldn’t have possibly paid it back.
Whilst it would be unfair to pin the blame for the crash of the economy wholly on the Labour government at the time, it was indeed the Labour government that had a fairly lax regulation regime for the financial sector at the time, and it was this that caused the global financial crash to have a particularly damaging impact on the UK’s economy. It was also due to these lax regulations that other countries such as Canada and Australia did not suffer as badly as the UK. Ed Miliband has even apologised for the lax regulations that were in place at the time – he did so on the party leaders’ election debate about a month ago.
Your analogy is mad and completely different. A murderer just released from prison wanting to buy a gun is a case of a criminal wanting to break the law again. Maybe if someone committed for financial fraud and money laundering went to take out a loan your comparison could apply, but when we are talking about everyday people who should make a sensible decision about managing their household budgets we cannot compare. Of course it is not entirely the fault of the people, but at the same time the banker-bashing, Guardian-reading, Labour-voting, socialists are 100% wrong in blaming the crash on only bankers.
The lax legislation is purely concerning the requirement about keeping a level of capital or assets to balance out the lending. Whilst the regulations on this were lax the big problem in the UK’s economy was also high public spending, high taxes on business, rent-seeking, and government intervention in private companies.
Dean, your last paragraph says it all. You agree that the regulations were lax, and also point out that public spending and taxes were high as well as government intervention being woefully dangerous. All of these issues were the fault of the Labour government at the time; therefore why blame Joe Bloggs of the public for something that was primarily the government’s fault? If loans and money were being handed out willy nilly would you too not take what you could?
I do not only blame one thing or group. I am not one of those extremists who only blame bankers, or only blame Labour, or only blame the public, I blame all four for the severity of Britain’s downturn.
Dean you really are getting in a stew on this one. Of Course Bankers have been breaking the law, beaking banking regulations and screwing the public for donkey`s years. The problem was, and to some extent still goes on today, Tax Dodging scams for the people with money to salt it away, sky high bonuses to gamble with the publics money, etc.etc.
The problem is thast the politicains took their eye off the ball, and allowed Bankers to run their busineses into the ground and then coming cap in hand to the plebs to bail e`m out. Labour because they lack the backbone to call them to book, and the Tories because they are complicit in the sort of deception, rule breaking and lack of regulation, which permitted their bed fellows and political party backers to rip the Counrty off,
Your argument also falls flat on blaming the Labour Government unless of course you also blame the British Labour Government for the finacial crisis in other Countries, including the catistrophic collapse of the USA economy at exactly the same time, you are promoting a myth upon which much of the current Tory idiological attack on the poorest of this country is based, and again, even after the public paid to bail out the bankers in the first place, they are called upon again, ( under Tory Policies) to pay again from their household budgets. The last cobbled together governement were a bunch of glory grabbing yobs who have taken the citizens of this Country for a ride on the myth which you continue to peddle.
I’d disagree with Ian Gorman,Beci Newton’s hesitation at one point doesn’t rule her out from being a successful MP she recovered well despite the heckling from the Labour Party, Ed Miliband made a speech recently in which he forgot to mention half Labour’s policy does that rule him out from belosying Prime Minister. Overall HSR performance was guite good and she spoke with conviction. Of course when the NHS and the closure of the Miners Hospital was mentioned, no one mentioned the Labour Party’s role in its closure, since its common knowledge, they pushed for the new cottage hospital at Ystrad Mynach, since it would look good on their CV when Wayne David loses his seat.
John, I cannot agree with you as to Beci being a viable and successful candidate at this juncture. I am encouraged by young people becoming involved in politics and having the conviction to make a stand. However, Beci under performed, showed her inexperience and if she was totally honest with herself would agree. My advice would be to take heart, don’t become demoralised and learn from this event. Her time is not now.
For someone so young, where was her mentor and did her party coach her? It seems not. Left her to the wolves.
John, Beci’s performance was terrible and yes it would rule her out from being an effective MP, as to be so requires a larger degree of measured maturity and intellectual reasoning capabilities. The real issue, as I pointed out, was that her party Plaid did not invest the effort needed to school Beci sufficiently – that was as they say self-evident. I was very disappointed to hear that, just because Beci is too young to remember when the Miner’s had a 24-hour A&E, she does not think that we deserve one. I am starting to think that Lindsey Whittle and crew have hung poor Beci out to dry in some sort of retaliation for his not getting the nomination this time around.
At least Beci can be forgiven for not knowing that the Miners was once a real, 24 hour a day, 365 day a year hospital. I have heard from politicians older than I am that “there was never a 24 hour A & E.” In fact there was a 24 hour A & E for most of the Miners history.
We were told that the Miners had to close but that we would get a modern hospital. We were lied to, as someone in these comments wrote, “you may as well put a sign outside Ystrad Fawr saying ‘go to the Gwent”
I agree with you that Beci has been thrown to the wolves but at least the experience will benefit her. She seems to be a pleasant person and I’m sure she will learn from this campaign that it is a very different matter speaking to a cynical audience rather than like minded people. Leo and Sam both suffered a lot more hostility from the audience than she, but both handled the pressure with aplomb, proving there is no substitute for experience.
What really annoys me is the Labour Party were involved in the closure of the Miners and the construction of the White Elephant at Ystrad.
John, agree with every word.
Ian, It is becoming clear as time goes on, that the local Plaid organisation are in some difficulty seeking out and finding `experienced` candidates to stand for election, at all levels, and in many regards.
For instance, the Deputy Leader of the party in Caerphilly, in the Observer, made much of wanting his party to `appoint` a Town councillor to replace one of their representatives who suddenly resigned his seat rather than allow the citizens of the town to `elect` a Councillor in an election. They continuesly `appoint` faceless, unknown, individuals,(unelected members of their party) to the Boards of Governers of local schools, to take the place, (the statutory seat), on those boards, by, elected reprepresentatives, they continuesly reappoint these people to the boards at the AGM of the Caerphilly Town Council,coming up next week, whilst ignoring the opposition elected members on the council. who`s nominations are always voted down, it is a sight to witness.
It is no wonder that when they then `push to the front`, honest, hardworking, individuals like Beci Newton, they fail to do their homework, fail to brief her properly, fail to support her, particulalry at public meetings, and then fail to support her publicly thereafter when the going gets rough.
Ian, with your interest in education I would hope people like you would by `on message` in respect to the way the lay management of our schools is` organised`and `arranged` by political partisanship and manipulation, I dont think that Beci has been hung out to dry, as you say, I hold the view that it is arrogent misplaced confidence by those who should be publicly supporting her.
Wayne David will not lose Caerphilly as you suggest, you know as well as anyone that the Labour vote in this constituency is measured by weight and not in numbers, the only party which could come even close to shifting labours support is Plaid Cymru, and, they could only do that if `some` of the Plaid movers and shakers, in the constituency, become, and demonstrate they have become, more inclusive, personable, fiendly, and less confrontational, and learn something of this from Lindsay Whittle, Colin Mann, and Rob Gough, and, particularly from their leader Leanne Wood.
Until then Plaid will remain also rans. Where, for instance, are the supporters of Plaid when it comes to speaking up for Beci, thier candidate in this election, on this article and the subsequent comments from the public?
Perhaps you`ve hit the nail on the head, Ian?.
I’d disagree with Ian Gorman,Beci Newton’s hesitation at one point doesn’t rule her out from being a successful MP she recovered well despite the heckling from the Labour Party, Ed Miliband made a speech recently in which he forgot to mention half Labour’s policy does that rule him out from belosying Prime Minister. Overall HSR performance was guite good and she spoke with conviction. Of course when the NHS and the closure of the Miners Hospital was mentioned, no one mentioned the Labour Party’s role in its closure, since its common knowledge, they pushed for the new cottage hospital at Ystrad Mynach, since it would look good on their CV when Wayne David loses his seat.
John, I cannot agree with you as to Beci being a viable and successful candidate at this juncture. I am encouraged by young people becoming involved in politics and having the conviction to make a stand. However, Beci under performed, showed her inexperience and if she was totally honest with herself would agree. My advice would be to take heart, don’t become demoralised and learn from this event. Her time is not now.
For someone so young, where was her mentor and did her party coach her? It seems not. Left her to the wolves.
John, Beci’s performance was terrible and yes it would rule her out from being an effective MP, as to be so requires a larger degree of measured maturity and intellectual reasoning capabilities. The real issue, as I pointed out, was that her party Plaid did not invest the effort needed to school Beci sufficiently – that was as they say self-evident. I was very disappointed to hear that, just because Beci is too young to remember when the Miner’s had a 24-hour A&E, she does not think that we deserve one. I am starting to think that Lindsey Whittle and crew have hung poor Beci out to dry in some sort of retaliation for his not getting the nomination this time around.
At least Beci can be forgiven for not knowing that the Miners was once a real, 24 hour a day, 365 day a year hospital. I have heard from politicians older than I am that “there was never a 24 hour A & E.” In fact there was a 24 hour A & E for most of the Miners history.
We were told that the Miners had to close but that we would get a modern hospital. We were lied to, as someone in these comments wrote, “you may as well put a sign outside Ystrad Fawr saying ‘go to the Gwent”
I agree with you that Beci has been thrown to the wolves but at least the experience will benefit her. She seems to be a pleasant person and I’m sure she will learn from this campaign that it is a very different matter speaking to a cynical audience rather than like minded people. Leo and Sam both suffered a lot more hostility from the audience than she, but both handled the pressure with aplomb, proving there is no substitute for experience.
What really annoys me is the Labour Party were involved in the closure of the Miners and the construction of the White Elephant at Ystrad.
John, agree with every word.
Ian, It is becoming clear as time goes on, that the local Plaid organisation are in some difficulty seeking out and finding `experienced` candidates to stand for election, at all levels, and in many regards.
For instance, the Deputy Leader of the party in Caerphilly, in the Observer, made much of wanting his party to `appoint` a Town Councillor to replace one of their representatives who suddenly resigned his seat rather than allow the citizens of the town to `elect` a Councillor in an election. They continuesly `appoint` faceless, unknown, individuals, (unelected members of their party) to the Boards of Governers of local schools, to take the place, (the statutory seat), on those boards, by, what should be elected reprepresentatives, they continuesly reappoint these people to the boards at the AGM of the Caerphilly Town Council, coming up again next week the 11th May at the Twyn Commuity Centre, whilst ignoring the opposition elected members on the council. who`s nominations are always voted down, it is a sight to witness. It will be interesting to see, when the Council changes it political clout shortly, from Plaid to a rainbow coalition, if these issues, and others, are democraticalised.
It is no wonder that when they then `push to the front`, honest, hardworking, individuals like Beci Newton, they fail to do their homework, fail to brief her properly, fail to support her, particularly at public meetings, and then fail to support her publicly thereafter when the going gets rough.
Ian, with your interest in education I would hope people like you would be `on message` in respect to the way the lay management of our schools is` organised` and `arranged` by political partisanship and manipulation, I dont think that Beci has been hung out to dry, as you say, I hold the view that it is arrogant misplaced confidence by those who should be publicly supporting her.
Wayne David will not lose Caerphilly as you suggest, you know as well as anyone that the Labour vote in this constituency is measured by weight and not in numbers, the only party which could come even close to shifting labours support is Plaid Cymru, and, they could only do that if `some` of the Plaid movers and shakers, in the constituency, become, and demonstrate they have become, more inclusive, personable, fiendly, and less confrontational, and learn something of this from Lindsay Whittle, Colin Mann, and Rob Gough, and, particularly from their leader Leanne Wood.
Until then Plaid will remain also rans. Where, for instance, are the supporters of Plaid when it comes to speaking up for Beci, thier candidate in this election, on this article and the subsequent comments from the public?
Perhaps you`ve hit the nail on the head, Ian?.
This hustings meeting was organised by the least most likely group to see their candidate win anything. They invited all other candidates to attend, and good on them.
Perhaps a perceived obligation rather than genuine enthusiasm was the real reason why the Candidates attended, and, this maybe why it appears from comments of this page that candidates with little political experience fell short of attendees expectations?
Next year we see the Assembly Elections, lets hope that the Trades Union Council will pencil in a date or dates for hustings meetings where Candidates will promote their particular brand of politics to get elected to the Welsh Assembly, another interesting thing will be that the Labour Candidate in that election WILL NOT BE SITTING MEMBER., much more a level playing field for all candidaTES , should be interesting..
I would like to point out that the initial plan was to only include the TUSC candidate but after it was suggested all candidate should attend the decision was made to allow them all in.
Dean; You are totally and completely incorrect in you comment about candidates attending this husting meeting,
The fact are that the Trustees of the Community Hall, in which the event was held, were approached to hire the hall.
The Charity which runs, ownes, and manages the hall have a clear policy of not allowing the hall to be used for party political purposes by individuals or political parties, however, on this occassion the Trustees decided that providing all the Candidates in the election were invited to the event the organisers could use the facility, it was confirm that this was the intention of the organisors, and the event was duly confirmed. It was never suggested to the Charity which ownes the hall that anything else other than the above was the intention.
Candidates were NOT in your words, `allowed in`, the entire process was build around the fact that all candidates would be invited, thier attendance or not was a matter for them of course,. The event would not have taken place in the Community Hall had your statement been correct.
How do I know that my statement is correct? It is because I am Secretary to the Trustees of the Charity which ownes and manages the Community Hall, which incidently is used totally free of charge to all pensioner groups in St Martin and Morgan Jones Ward who all meet in the Hall every week.
Certain other, truelly Community Groups, also can have FREE use of the Charities Facilities of the Hall. The charity which ownes and runs the hall do so without any contributions from the Caerphilly Council, or any other public grants or donations from any other bodies.However, in the case of this hustings meetings a charge was made by the charity and paid by the Caerphilly Trade Union Council for using the Hall even though it could have been considered a `Community event.
While it is true the event organisers approached the hall, before the hall was approached the TUC intended to have a session whereby the TUSC candidate was introduced to Caerphilly. It was only after someone called for a full debate that the TUC decided to invite candidates. Once a full debate had been decided on the TUC approached the hall and the process you said ensued.
This hustings meeting was organised by the least most likely group to see their candidate win anything. They invited all other candidates to attend, and good on them.
Perhaps a perceived obligation rather than genuine enthusiasm was the real reason why the Candidates attended, and, this maybe why it appears from comments of this page that candidates with little political experience fell short of attendees expectations?
Next year we see the Assembly Elections, lets hope that the Trades Union Council will pencil in a date or dates for hustings meetings where Candidates will promote their particular brand of politics to get elected to the Welsh Assembly, another interesting thing will be that the Labour Candidate in that election WILL NOT BE SITTING MEMBER., much more a level playing field for all candidates, should be interesting..
I would like to point out that the initial plan was to only include the TUSC candidate but after it was suggested all candidate should attend the decision was made to allow them all in.
Dean; You are totally and completely incorrect in you comment about candidates attending this husting meeting,
The fact are that the Trustees of the Community Hall, in which the event was held, were approached to hire the hall.
The Charity which runs, ownes, and manages the hall have a clear policy of not allowing the hall to be used for party political purposes by individuals or political parties, however, on this occassion the Trustees decided that providing all the Candidates in the election were invited to the event the organisers could use the facility, it was confirm that this was the intention of the organisors, and the event was duly confirmed. It was never suggested to the Charity which ownes the hall that anything else other than the above was the intention.
Candidates were NOT in your words, `allowed in`, the entire process was build around the fact that all candidates would be invited, thier attendance or not was a matter for them of course,. The event would not have taken place in the Community Hall had your statement been correct.
How do I know that my statement is correct? It is because I am Secretary to the Trustees of the Charity which ownes and manages the Community Hall, which incidently is used totally free of charge to all pensioner groups in St Martin and Morgan Jones Ward who all meet in the Hall every week.
Certain other, truelly Community Groups, also can have FREE use of the Charities Facilities of the Hall. The charity which ownes and runs the hall do so without any contributions from the Caerphilly Council, or any other public grants or donations from any other bodies.However, in the case of this hustings meetings a charge was made by the charity and paid by the Caerphilly Trade Union Council for using the Hall even though it could have been considered a `Community event.
While it is true the event organisers approached the hall, before the hall was approached the TUC intended to have a session whereby the TUSC candidate was introduced to Caerphilly. It was only after someone called for a full debate that the TUC decided to invite candidates. Once a full debate had been decided on the TUC approached the hall and the process you said ensued.
In my opinion Beci did not underperform, she was nervous but that was natural, since she is young. One of her main virtues is that she actually as a real job as a Firefighter, most of the rest never had a real job in their lives. Wayne David is a professional politician, before that he was a teacher, and then worked in a Charity role, typical CV for a modern Labour politician. Beci will do well because she speaks from experience of real life in 2015. The gerrymandering of the demographics in Caerphilly, will mean she has a tough fight on her hands.
In my opinion Beci did not underperform, she was nervous but that was natural, since she is young. One of her main virtues is that she actually as a real job as a Firefighter, most of the rest never had a real job in their lives. Wayne David is a professional politician, before that he was a teacher, and then worked in a Charity role, typical CV for a modern Labour politician. Beci will do well because she speaks from experience of real life in 2015. The gerrymandering of the demographics in Caerphilly, will mean she has a tough fight on her hands.
Dean you obviously don’t read the Guardian, where it has been reported a connection between suicide and benefit cuts.
Oh no! The Guardian. The Labour cheerleader. I tend to read reports where the consensus is there is no statistical link. The S.D. from all tests was enough to conclude any correlation that appears is more than likely down to chance.
Dean you obviously don’t read the Guardian, where it has been reported a connection between suicide and benefit cuts.
Oh no! The Guardian. The Labour cheerleader. I tend to read reports where the consensus is there is no statistical link. The S.D. from all tests was enough to conclude any correlation that appears is more than likely down to chance.
The hustings was organised by Caerphilly Trades Council. On the day the room was booked we contacted each of the parties’ Wales emails as shown online. UKIP responded instantly. The other parties took longer. We did not hear from the conservative until the morning of the event. Nevertheless, all candidates were treated courteously and made welcome. No doubt, the volume of correspondence directed to the central email address of some of the parties may have been responsible for the delay some of the candidates experienced. The fault, however was not ours. We appreciate the involvement of all concerned and would especially like to thank the committee of the pensioners hall.
The hustings was organised by Caerphilly Trades Council. On the day the room was booked we contacted each of the parties’ Wales emails as shown online. UKIP responded instantly. The other parties took longer. We did not hear from the conservative until the morning of the event. Nevertheless, all candidates were treated courteously and made welcome. No doubt, the volume of correspondence directed to the central email address of some of the parties may have been responsible for the delay some of the candidates experienced. The fault, however was not ours. We appreciate the involvement of all concerned and would especially like to thank the committee of the pensioners hall.
The article by Gareth Hill gives an excellent feel of the event. Many thanks, Gareth.
The article by Gareth Hill gives an excellent feel of the event. Many thanks, Gareth.
Trevor, what do you think my posts are, if not in support of Beci, she’s good, she’s local, and she’s Plaid. Plaid’s great difficulty in Caerphilly is that the demography has changed beyond recognition, with the huge estates built since 1970, built for the needs of Cardiff and further afield, so they don’t see themselves as Welsh and won’t vote Plaid. Gerrymandering on a big scale. It will be interesting to see the size of the UKIP vote,since they are a de facto English Nationalist party.
A bit of a sweeping statement to say that the inhabitants of the new estates don’t see themselves as Welsh, on the contrary I think most of them do.
UKIP is not an English party, it is a British party with an internationalist, rather than nationalist, outlook. Welsh people vote UKIP for the same reasons as other British people do, they don’t want their laws and way of life dictated by unelected commissioners in a European superstate.
The facts are that 25% of the population of Wales were born in England, So since the number of houses built in the Caerphilly basin is far more than needed for organic growth, so they must be taken up by people from outside the area. This is matched by the people I meet casually, who live in the estates. To quote what appears to me to be a fact is just that. Plaid can never win the Caerphilly seat because of the demographics. I’m not anti English, because two of my great grandfathers came from Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, so I can’t hate myself.Then your point about UKIP is mistaken, they started off as, and still are a little Englander party, nothing wrong with that, but I’m not convinced that they care about Wales. Plaid on the other hand have always in my experience been an internationalist party, you can’t have inter nationalism without having nations to be inter with. To highlight the difference UKIP want to leave the EU, but Plaid want to stay in, because they are internationalist. I’m not a member of Plaid, basically, I’m not a joiner, but their policies look to me to be the best on offer. I come from a Labour family, my grandmother was an activist in the 20s, but ninety odd years of supporting the Labour Party has only seen Wales impoverished, jobless, with one of the lowest standards of living health care in Europe.
Your comments are utterly bizarre even by Plaid standards.
Firstly, only 140,000 people moved into Wales from outside Wales. The population growth of Caerphilly was below 5% between 2001 and 2011 of which 2% of that was from outside Caerphilly. Even if all of these people were Plaid supporters Plaid would have had no chance of winning elections.
Saying you are not anti-English because you great grandfather came from England is bit like saying you are not racist because you have a black friend. It is a completely ridiculous point to make.
UKIP started off as a single issue, anti-EU party focussing on the whole of Britain. The fact most eurosceptics are in England does not make UKIP an English party. I suppose UKIP coming second in the EU elections counts for nothing.
Your lack of understanding with regards to internationalism is troubling. The EU is inherently a protectionist bloc much like the Soviet Union was. Goods can be freely transported around the EU but goods coming into the EU face high tariffs. For example, African farmers are facing $60bn revenue losses each year as the EU sells cheap crops to them subsidised by the Common Agriculture Policy, and also uses blockades to prevent agricultural produce from being imported from the continent. Not only do EU national not see the lower prices we could see if there was free trade, but the African farmers are kept poor. Agricultural subsidies are the biggest barrier to third world economic growth. We give foreign aid but it is dwarfed by the EU’s poor agricultural policy.
To make it worse the EU has handed subsidies to big companies like NEstle (over £1bn since the policy started). These big companies use it to force little, farming companies out of business. Once the smaller farms have gone the larger companies can charge extortionate prices as they have a monopoly. Over 80% of CAP subsidies have gone to large companies.
UKIP, wanting to leave the EU and the CAP, would be removing the barrier to economic growth in the third world, doing more than foreign aid does, and doing more than the EU does to help. If anything, UKIP is internationalist. We must remember the EU is not internationalist, it is nationalist with each member state forming the nation.
Furthermore, UKIP’s desire to have global agreements with the Commonwealth and other countries boosts its internationalist credentials.
In short, Caerphilly does not vote for Plaid because Wales does not need Plaid. Wales is better than Plaid’s small-world, tunnel-visioned, rely-on-EU-handouts, beg-to-London, socialist policies.
I couldn’t have put it better myself Dean, so I won’t try!
I agree with you that Caerphilly has grown far to much far to quickly.
25% of all people in Wales were born in England? That’s a big statistic I’m not doubting you but I would need a source on that. Even if 25% of these new estates are non Welsh, 3 quarters would still be Welsh and that’s a majority.
No one accused you of hating the English.
Ukip may or may not be “A little Englander Party” but it’s the only one offering us a referendum should it gain influence.
The only reason Plaid want to stay in the EU other than their socialist bent is so they will have two teats to suckle on and not because they have a wider outlook. I don’t know how you can accuse plaid of being anything other than myopic, you don’t have to look further than Ms Woods address to the people of Wales when she was supposed to be addressing the nation( leaders debate)
You do not have to be in bed with Brussels to trade with Frankfurt and warsaw. There will be plenty of people to trade with if we were to leave, they will still be there.
I agree with you that Caerphilly will continue to be Labour after the election you could put a red jacket on a donkey in this town and it will get elected.
I must say to commentators that John will always defend Plaid Cymru, no matter what they say or do. As he is very intelligent and a nice bloke too I can only assume he does this to wind people up. No doubt he enjoys many happy hours of harmless amusement doing this.
He often says that he has not been a party member for many years; he remembers the days when Plaid was the only viable alternative to some pretty grim Labour politicians. I don’t think John really has a lot of truck with today’s, EU mad, Plaid Cymru but still enjoys a debate from a standpoint of being Welsh, a tiny country in a world that does not care about Wales or the Welsh.
My support for Plaid is that it is a left of centre, and has become a party of civic nationalism, and many of its policies are the old Labour policies I grew up with, until it was taken over by the Metropolitan elite.A party that is world’s away from the Little Englander party that is Ukip, stuck in a 1955 mindset, anti Europe, anti immigration, anti Johnny Foriegner, anti working class an extrapolation of Teresa May’s view that that the Tories were ssen as the nasty party.Regarding my comments on immigration into Wales, the facts are in the 2011 Census, two minutes to Google it. That is why Plaid has a problem, in winning seats, its not a level playing field. I say that not as an excuse, but just to elucidate the facts. I find that its sad my great grandparents, running market gardens in Llanishen and Lisvane in the mid 19th century were willing to be assimilated into the local population, but today the incomers want to dominate.
Yes John that is a curious statement to make. I am Caerphilly born and bred and live in town and I am seriously considering voting Ukip. I’m as Welsh as a valley commando can be. I don’t want to be ruled by communist mafia types from the mediteranian and I don’t want to pay for 4 layers of government when only the unelected one makes the decisions in far off lands.
I think I understand your gerrymandering statement. Castle view for instance is or was bought by many people from Cardiff who may not feel an affinity with Caerphilly. This may or may not be true, I don’t know I had never given it much thought, I think your statement has come from assuming Cardiff isn’t Wales. You may have a point there.
You might not want to be ruled by communist mafia types from the Mediterranean, but do you want to be ruled by Ukip, an English nationalist party, its bad enough having the Labour Party and Conservatives.
John, I was actually taking about those experienced politicians of experience of election and electioneering on Plaid Cymru policies etc, I was taking about local Plaid Movers and shakers. I know your comments were `supportive`,of Beci, but it appears from Richards comments that you are not a particular,stated and recognised local Plaid supporter.
Before anyone accuses me of being over critical of the Plaid Movers and Shakers who I critisise I would say that I was brought up in a household which signed nomination papers for Plaid Candidates when you could be `stoned in the streets` in the Valleys for doing so, and that was long before any of them were ever elected. So, as a left leaning party I do have some respect for them, if I dont have total respect for some of the local representaives, I still hold that old attitude that the people for whom I cast my vote has to earn it. at least, by showing some respect for the communities they serve.
Exactly Trefor, I would have more respect for Plaid Cymru, and may have even be persuaded to vote for them, as I did several times in the distant past, if they were honest and had policies that made sense.
Their stated aim is Welsh independence but in reality they want to swap the supposed tyranny of Westminster for the real tyranny of an unelected EU elite.
They make much of how English immigration into Wales changes the demographics of the country, makes housing unafordable for Welsh people and, in John’s words “In the mid 19th century [immigrants] were willing to be assimilated into the local population, but today the incomers want to dominate.” Plaid and their supporters say this but are in favour oof completely uncontrolled immigration from 28 countries of the EU.
As far as I am concerned the EU is an undemocratic cabal of like minded cronies. I much prefer democracy, where people freely vote on who they want in government and what they want that government to do. Contrast this with the EU approach where the constitutional changes of 2005 were rejected in referenda by the French, Dutch and Eire (we were not given a chance to vote by Labour) but the EU sailed on regardless and instituted the changes, calling them a “treaty.”
I intend to reverse the process of stealing democracy from the people of Great Britain by voting for Sam Gould on Thursday. UKIP are the only party that unequivocally reject the EU, the other parties are now totally in favour of the anti democratic forces in Europe and personally I do not believe the Tories will offer a referendum unless they are forced into doing so as they have lied to us in the past.
Its a funny state of affairs, when supporters of a de facto right wing English Nationalist Party, because that is what Ukip is, and always has been, attack Plaid as being narrow nationalist. I don’t like the way British politics has become Presidential, in that people vote for a person rather than the policies. But since it has, in Leanne Wood, I see someone I can empathize with, a Valley Girl who has worked in the
If you want a party whose policies make sense, why support Ukip?.
Current forecast for Caerphilly, Labour 42%, Plaid 20%, Conservatives 16% Ukip16% Lib Dems 6% Greens 2%.
If that turns out to be the result in Caerphilly that suits me, this time around, and if Labour do form the next UK government they will be well advised to ensure the promises they have made during this campaign are kept
I take it that this is your own, personal, forecast John where some of the people of Caerffili get more than one vote. This allows a poll of 102% of the electorate. I see Rebecca Newton does extremely well, polling more than 3% more than Lindsay Whittle did last time, when he came in behind the conservatives.
It will be interesting to compare this to the real poll when the result is announced in the early hours of Friday morning. Myself, I never look at the polls seriously.
No its not my poll prediction, its from a group called 38 degrees.org, a non party political group to which I sometimes sign petitions. They seem to be a mildly left wing organization, and sometimes our views coincide, not always because I am a free spirit and not a joiner. If it were my poll the first two places would be swapped round. Being one of those people who didn’t leave the Labour Party it left me, when it went right wing under Kinnock and Blair.
Sounds like ’38 degrees’ gleaned their information by asking a Labour member, out walking his dog, what he thought the result would be. About as much honesty and candour as you would get from asking David Cameron.
I don’t think so, they seem to be doing be doing British nationwide predictions on the result Labour and Tories about 32% each, Lib Dems and Kippers bringing up the field. But we’ll only know by lunchtime Friday.
Well now hat we have the real numbers we might want to compare and contrast with the ’38 degrees’ numbers
Labour 44.3%, UKIP 19.3%, Conservative 16.6%, Plaid 14.6%, Lib Dems 2.3%, Greens 2.3% and TUSC 0.4%.
Nice result for UKIP and something to build on for the Assembly elections. Very nice to see Plaid, which has been by far the nasty party, pushed into fourth.
Sorry but you’re wrong Ukip is, and always has been the nasty party. I’m not surprised by the result, because of demographic change, but what does surprise me is how reasonably intelligent ex Labour supporters were taken in by Ukips right wing policies. Still those with long memories, will remember the Ratepayer flash in the pan.
Trevor, what do you think my posts are, if not in support of Beci, she’s good, she’s local, and she’s Plaid. Plaid’s great difficulty in Caerphilly is that the demography has changed beyond recognition, with the huge estates built since 1970, built for the needs of Cardiff and further afield, so they don’t see themselves as Welsh and won’t vote Plaid. Gerrymandering on a big scale. It will be interesting to see the size of the UKIP vote,since they are a de facto English Nationalist party.
A bit of a sweeping statement to say that the inhabitants of the new estates don’t see themselves as Welsh, on the contrary I think most of them do.
UKIP is not an English party, it is a British party with an internationalist, rather than nationalist, outlook. Welsh people vote UKIP for the same reasons as other British people do, they don’t want their laws and way of life dictated by unelected commissioners in a European superstate.
The facts are that 25% of the population of Wales were born in England, So since the number of houses built in the Caerphilly basin is far more than needed for organic growth, so they must be taken up by people from outside the area. This is matched by the people I meet casually, who live in the estates. To quote what appears to me to be a fact is just that. Plaid can never win the Caerphilly seat because of the demographics. I’m not anti English, because two of my great grandfathers came from Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, so I can’t hate myself.Then your point about UKIP is mistaken, they started off as, and still are a little Englander party, nothing wrong with that, but I’m not convinced that they care about Wales. Plaid on the other hand have always in my experience been an internationalist party, you can’t have inter nationalism without having nations to be inter with. To highlight the difference UKIP want to leave the EU, but Plaid want to stay in, because they are internationalist. I’m not a member of Plaid, basically, I’m not a joiner, but their policies look to me to be the best on offer. I come from a Labour family, my grandmother was an activist in the 20s, but ninety odd years of supporting the Labour Party has only seen Wales impoverished, jobless, with one of the lowest standards of living health care in Europe.
Your comments are utterly bizarre even by Plaid standards.
Firstly, only 140,000 people moved into Wales from outside Wales. The population growth of Caerphilly was below 5% between 2001 and 2011 of which 2% of that was from outside Caerphilly. Even if all of these people were Plaid supporters Plaid would have had no chance of winning elections.
Saying you are not anti-English because you great grandfather came from England is bit like saying you are not racist because you have a black friend. It is a completely ridiculous point to make.
UKIP started off as a single issue, anti-EU party focussing on the whole of Britain. The fact most eurosceptics are in England does not make UKIP an English party. I suppose UKIP coming second in the EU elections counts for nothing.
Your lack of understanding with regards to internationalism is troubling. The EU is inherently a protectionist bloc much like the Soviet Union was. Goods can be freely transported around the EU but goods coming into the EU face high tariffs. For example, African farmers are facing $60bn revenue losses each year as the EU sells cheap crops to them subsidised by the Common Agriculture Policy, and also uses blockades to prevent agricultural produce from being imported from the continent. Not only do EU national not see the lower prices we could see if there was free trade, but the African farmers are kept poor. Agricultural subsidies are the biggest barrier to third world economic growth. We give foreign aid but it is dwarfed by the EU’s poor agricultural policy.
To make it worse the EU has handed subsidies to big companies like Nestle (over £1bn since the policy started). These big companies use it to force little, farming companies out of business. Once the smaller farms have gone the larger companies can charge extortionate prices as they have a monopoly. Over 80% of CAP subsidies have gone to large companies.
UKIP, wanting to leave the EU and the CAP, would be removing the barrier to economic growth in the third world, doing more than foreign aid does, and doing more than the EU does to help. If anything, UKIP is internationalist. We must remember the EU is not internationalist, it is nationalist with each member state forming the nation.
Furthermore, UKIP’s desire to have global agreements with the Commonwealth and other countries boosts its internationalist credentials.
In short, Caerphilly does not vote for Plaid because Wales does not need Plaid. Wales is better than Plaid’s small-world, tunnel-visioned, rely-on-EU-handouts, beg-to-London, socialist policies.
I couldn’t have put it better myself Dean, so I won’t try!
I agree with you that Caerphilly has grown far to much far to quickly.
25% of all people in Wales were born in England? That’s a big statistic I’m not doubting you but I would need a source on that. Even if 25% of these new estates are non Welsh, 3 quarters would still be Welsh and that’s a majority.
No one accused you of hating the English.
Ukip may or may not be “A little Englander Party” but it’s the only one offering us a referendum should it gain influence.
The only reason Plaid want to stay in the EU other than their socialist bent is so they will have two teats to suckle on and not because they have a wider outlook. I don’t know how you can accuse plaid of being anything other than myopic, you don’t have to look further than Ms Woods address to the people of Wales when she was supposed to be addressing the nation( leaders debate)
You do not have to be in bed with Brussels to trade with Frankfurt and warsaw. There will be plenty of people to trade with if we were to leave, they will still be there.
I agree with you that Caerphilly will continue to be Labour after the election you could put a red jacket on a donkey in this town and it will get elected.
I must say to commentators that John will always defend Plaid Cymru, no matter what they say or do. As he is very intelligent and a nice bloke too I can only assume he does this to wind people up. No doubt he enjoys many happy hours of harmless amusement doing this.
He often says that he has not been a party member for many years; he remembers the days when Plaid was the only viable alternative to some pretty grim Labour politicians. I don’t think John really has a lot of truck with today’s, EU mad, Plaid Cymru but still enjoys a debate from a standpoint of being Welsh, a tiny country in a world that does not care about Wales or the Welsh.
My support for Plaid is that it is a left of centre, and has become a party of civic nationalism, and many of its policies are the old Labour policies I grew up with, until it was taken over by the Metropolitan elite.A party that is world’s away from the Little Englander party that is Ukip, stuck in a 1955 mindset, anti Europe, anti immigration, anti Johnny Foriegner, anti working class an extrapolation of Teresa May’s view that that the Tories were ssen as the nasty party.Regarding my comments on immigration into Wales, the facts are in the 2011 Census, two minutes to Google it. That is why Plaid has a problem, in winning seats, its not a level playing field. I say that not as an excuse, but just to elucidate the facts. I find that its sad my great grandparents, running market gardens in Llanishen and Lisvane in the mid 19th century were willing to be assimilated into the local population, but today the incomers want to dominate.
Yes John that is a curious statement to make. I am Caerphilly born and bred and live in town and I am seriously considering voting Ukip. I’m as Welsh as a valley commando can be. I don’t want to be ruled by communist mafia types from the mediteranian and I don’t want to pay for 4 layers of government when only the unelected one makes the decisions in far off lands.
I think I understand your gerrymandering statement. Castle view for instance is or was bought by many people from Cardiff who may not feel an affinity with Caerphilly. This may or may not be true, I don’t know I had never given it much thought, I think your statement has come from assuming Cardiff isn’t Wales. You may have a point there.
You might not want to be ruled by communist mafia types from the Mediterranean, but do you want to be ruled by Ukip, an English nationalist party, its bad enough having the Labour Party and Conservatives.
John, I was actually taking about those experienced politicians of experience of election and electioneering on Plaid Cymru policies etc, I was taking about local Plaid Movers and shakers. I know your comments were `supportive`,of Beci, but it appears from Richards comments that you are not a particular,stated and recognised local Plaid supporter.
Before anyone accuses me of being over critical of the Plaid Movers and Shakers who I critisise I would say that I was brought up in a household which signed nomination papers for Plaid Candidates when you could be `stoned in the streets` in the Valleys for doing so, and that was long before any of them were ever elected. So, as a left leaning party I do have some respect for them, if I dont have total respect for some of the local representaives, I still hold that old attitude that the people for whom I cast my vote has to earn it. at least, by showing some respect for the communities they serve.
Exactly Trefor, I would have more respect for Plaid Cymru, and may have even be persuaded to vote for them, as I did several times in the distant past, if they were honest and had policies that made sense.
Their stated aim is Welsh independence but in reality they want to swap the supposed tyranny of Westminster for the real tyranny of an unelected EU elite.
They make much of how English immigration into Wales changes the demographics of the country, makes housing unafordable for Welsh people and, in John’s words “In the mid 19th century [immigrants] were willing to be assimilated into the local population, but today the incomers want to dominate.” Plaid and their supporters say this but are in favour oof completely uncontrolled immigration from 28 countries of the EU.
As far as I am concerned the EU is an undemocratic cabal of like minded cronies. I much prefer democracy, where people freely vote on who they want in government and what they want that government to do. Contrast this with the EU approach where the constitutional changes of 2005 were rejected in referenda by the French, Dutch and Eire (we were not given a chance to vote by Labour) but the EU sailed on regardless and instituted the changes, calling them a “treaty.”
I intend to reverse the process of stealing democracy from the people of Great Britain by voting for Sam Gould on Thursday. UKIP are the only party that unequivocally reject the EU, the other parties are now totally in favour of the anti democratic forces in Europe and personally I do not believe the Tories will offer a referendum unless they are forced into doing so as they have lied to us in the past.
Its a funny state of affairs, when supporters of a de facto right wing English Nationalist Party, because that is what Ukip is, and always has been, attack Plaid as being narrow nationalist. I don’t like the way British politics has become Presidential, in that people vote for a person rather than the policies. But since it has, in Leanne Wood, I see someone I can empathize with, a Valley Girl who has worked in the Probation Services, and has seen the dark underside of our Valleys, where to quote the poet , life can be as grim as a rock pool, and wants to change it for the better. Compared to the traditional type of Plaid Leader, the out of touch lawyer, who put me of Plaid, she is a breath of fresh air. Totally different to Nigel Farage, a home counties saloon bar right winger, whose career has been in the city. Some one whose plans for the NHS are to make it an American style Insurance funded system. It is beyond my comprehension who anybody in Wales, which has always has a liberal leftwing based politics, could even consider voting for a Little Englander right wing party.
If you want a party whose policies make sense, why support Ukip?.
Current forecast for Caerphilly, Labour 42%, Plaid 20%, Conservatives 16% Ukip16% Lib Dems 6% Greens 2%.
If that turns out to be the result in Caerphilly it would be a remarkable result but you`ve found an additional 2% from somewhere, but that suits me, this time around, and if Labour do form the next UK government they will be well advised to ensure the promises they have made during this campaign are kept.
I think your prediction is `flawed` wherever it came from, if it were a reasonably accurate result it would mean, comparing it with the last election, Plaid overtaking the Conservative in polling 3% more than last time, and an increase in support for Beci Newton 20%, over that of Lindsay Whittle 17.4% ?. and, Labour polling more than 12.5% LESS than the last election, where on earth do your prediction come from, John.?.Particularly that Beci Newton turns out to be more popular in the ballot box than the ever popular, and, at some electoral levels, as Lindsay Whittle
I take it that this is your own, personal, forecast John where some of the people of Caerffili get more than one vote. This allows a poll of 102% of the electorate. I see Rebecca Newton does extremely well, polling more than 3% more than Lindsay Whittle did last time, when he came in behind the conservatives.
It will be interesting to compare this to the real poll when the result is announced in the early hours of Friday morning. Myself, I never look at the polls seriously.
No its not my poll prediction, its from a group called 38 degrees.org, a non party political group to which I sometimes sign petitions. They seem to be a mildly left wing organization, and sometimes our views coincide, not always because I am a free spirit and not a joiner. If it were my poll the first two places would be swapped round. Being one of those people who didn’t leave the Labour Party it left me, when it went right wing under Kinnock and Blair.
Sounds like ’38 degrees’ gleaned their information by asking a Labour member, out walking his dog, what he thought the result would be. About as much honesty and candour as you would get from asking David Cameron.
I don’t think so, they seem to be doing be doing British nationwide predictions on the result Labour and Tories about 32% each, Lib Dems and Kippers bringing up the field. But we’ll only know by lunchtime Friday.
Well now hat we have the real numbers we might want to compare and contrast with the ’38 degrees’ numbers
Labour 44.3%, UKIP 19.3%, Conservative 16.6%, Plaid 14.6%, Lib Dems 2.3%, Greens 2.3% and TUSC 0.4%.
Nice result for UKIP and something to build on for the Assembly elections. Very nice to see Plaid, which has been by far the nasty party, pushed into fourth.
Sorry but you’re wrong Ukip is, and always has been the nasty party. I’m not surprised by the result, because of demographic change, but what does surprise me is how reasonably intelligent ex Labour supporters were taken in by Ukips right wing policies. Still those with long memories, will remember the Ratepayer flash in the pan.
If people want the facts regarding the percentage of people in Wales, born outside Wales, just Google. The 2011 Census showed 27% of the population of Wales was born outside Wales. So Plaid have a built-in disadvantage, especially when you consider the percentage of the population who are the descendants of those who came here during the industrial revolution. In fact if you want a classic case of the change immigration can cause in a country, Wales is the classic case, where migration over a century has left the Welsh a minority in their bown country. I’m not a member of Plaid now, but remember when I was, the great left wing comment that should all be internationalists rather than “Narrow Nationalists” , which in fact meant being “British”_ whatever that was.Now it is the right who are wrapping themselves in a British identity. UKIP is by definition an English Nationalist party, and as all Little Englanderdodo, confuse being English with being British, the Scots and Welsh not counting in their viewpoint.
Oh dear, dear, dear! You have not taken onboard any of points as to why UKIP is not an English party and why Plaid Cymru, Labour and all other parties in Britain cannot be internationalists.
I shall direct you to my earlier post as writing out again would be a waste of time. please challenge the points. It’s like talking to a brick wall with you.
If people want the facts regarding the percentage of people in Wales, born outside Wales, just Google. The 2011 Census showed 27% of the population of Wales was born outside Wales. So Plaid have a built-in disadvantage, especially when you consider the percentage of the population who are the descendants of those who came here during the industrial revolution. In fact if you want a classic case of the change immigration can cause in a country, Wales is the classic case, where migration over a century has left the Welsh a minority in their bown country. I’m not a member of Plaid now, but remember when I was, the great left wing comment that should all be internationalists rather than “Narrow Nationalists” , which in fact meant being “British”_ whatever that was.Now it is the right who are wrapping themselves in a British identity. UKIP is by definition an English Nationalist party, and as all Little Englanderdodo, confuse being English with being British, the Scots and Welsh not counting in their viewpoint.
Oh dear, dear, dear! You have not taken onboard any of points as to why UKIP is not an English party and why Plaid Cymru, Labour and all other parties in Britain cannot be internationalists.
I shall direct you to my earlier post as writing out again would be a waste of time. please challenge the points. It’s like talking to a brick wall with you.
Well here is Wayne at his finest, little time for the people of Caerphilly and shouts you down when he avoids questions again!
https://youtu.be/tLncSQLX-O4
Well here is Wayne at his finest, little time for the people of Caerphilly and shouts you down when he avoids questions again!
https://youtu.be/tLncSQLX-O4
There is a alternative for Caerphilly, give Sam Gould 20 minutes of your time and think!
https://www.facebook.com/SamuelGould/videos/841230879297194/
I do not need to think. I have read every party manifesto and UKIP’s manifesto is the one I agree with most. Sam is also an excellent candidate and a very nice person.
I have already voted for him!
There is a alternative for Caerphilly, give Sam Gould 20 minutes of your time and think!
https://www.facebook.com/SamuelGould/videos/841230879297194/
I do not need to think. I have read every party manifesto and UKIP’s manifesto is the one I agree with most. Sam is also an excellent candidate and a very nice person.
I have already voted for him!