In his regular blog for Caerphilly Observer South Wales East AM Lindsay Whittle gives his take on recent news.
Blackwood Woods
Campaigners Andrew Farina-Childs and Delwyn Davies, two Blackwood councillors, deserve credit for their excellent work to clear and save the remaining Blackwood Woods, known as Y Coed Duon – or The Black Wood.
Also it is great that Blackwood Town Council is chipping in £10,000 towards what is really the last part of the original Blackwood.
It had become overgrown but now the council has taken the initiative and is planning a major clear-up of this resource next month with new paths being laid. This will ensure schoolchildren can look at the varied wildlife as well providing an excellent resource for local people and visitors.
Older people should not lose out
I wanted to give my backing to Dr Ruth Marks, Wales’s Older People’s Commissioner, who has been urging all GPs to ensure older people always get the very best of service and care.
Age should not to be taken into consideration when considering treatment and any form of discrimination cannot be tolerated. Family doctors should continue to offer all advice and support must be offered. No one is ever too old to have treatment on our great NHS as far as I’m concerned.
I also believe that all travel companies should ensure that all older people are offered travel insurance at reasonable cost. I’d urge people to boycott those firms that don’t do this.
Caerphilly Local History Society
I wanted to congratulate the Caerphilly Local History Society on their very successful photographic exhibition and artefacts which attracted thousands of visitors.
I notice that they have changed their name now to avoid a clash of names with the long established history society that has also done sterling work for our town over years. I’m told the Facebook group will now be Caerphilly Heritage.
Their collection is definitely worth a viewing.
Big Cheese
Congratulations must go to Caerphilly Council because the Big Cheese gets better and bigger every year.
This year attendances topped 80,000. This was aided by great entertainment stalls and, importantly, good weather. It is one – if not the best – summer festival held in Wales.
The organisation was excellent as usual and it was great to see some many families and individuals enjoying themselves.
Lindsay Whittle
Plaid Cymru South Wales East AM
Regarding Lindsay's comment on 'Caerphilly Local History Society' I can, as chairman for the last 11 years, inform readers that this society had nothing to do with the photo exhibition, oue last exhibition was "Nature Meets Industry" at this year's Flower Festival.
If our AM can get confused by a (Facebook) organisation taking the name of an established (54 years) registered charity then it is no wonder that I have had many people making comments to me, good and bad, about this photographic display.
The Caerphilly Local History Society was set up by local historians (Prominent Plaid Cymru member H.P. Richards was one)in 1957 as a result of comments by some Labour party members that Wales had no separate history. Every year since then we have giving a series of 6 lectures per year, arranged trips to areas of historical interest, produced a dozen books and run school competitions. I can also inform readers that Lindsay is wrongly informed that the Facebook organisation has changed their name, they are still using our name as of 5 minutes ago.
I am pleased to see people getting interested in history and do not see this organisation as a rival, I just wish they would stop using our name and change it, as they have repeatedly promised the media and councillors they would. We are a non political, non sectarian charity and welcome anyone who is interested in history. In over half a century of serving the people of Caerffili we have learned a thing or two about this area's history and are happy to share our knowledge, provided we are asked and credited when our hard work is published.
I welcome Richard Williams comments on the confusion over the Caerphilly Local History Society, and the Facebook organisation, Caerphilly Local History(or is it now Caerphilly Heritage). As an ex Secretary of the Caerphilly Local History Society, I welcome peoples interest in local history,and feel Caerphilly is big enough for two organistions, the Caerphilly Local History Society and Caerphilly Heritage, since they meet different, with two differing approaches to the history of Caerphilly, both of which are valid. I am sure the supporters of Caerphilly Heritage will recieve a warm welcome when, and if, they attend the Society`s successful winter lecture programme.
I started the Facebook page and thought that the History society were actually called the Historical society, i'm not alone, the few people who have actually heard of them thought the same as myself, its such a pity that hardly anyone has heard of them considering they get substantial funding for promoting local interest in the town, well the majority of our thousand members didnt even know they were in existence, let alone what they do for our town, so I am very pleased that it has taken my site (which is not funded) to generate local interest again. I have changed the name but with Facebook, I would have to delete the Caerphilly Local History page so it is being transferred into our new name this obviously takes time, I'm looking forward to using Caerphilly Heritage so people do not get confused and know that it is us promoting all the interest in Caerphilly and not the funded society.
The last comment shows a high level of naivety,and forgive the pun, I find her explanation hysterical rather than historical. I live in Rhiwbina, and I have heard of the Caerphilly Local history Society, and though, not a member attend some meetings I find of interest. as with most local History Societies, the Caerphilly Society is a responsible academic society that carries out research into the history of Caerphilly and district and its members are members in the real sense in that they pay an annual fee, on the other hand the Facebook organisation cannot call people who log in members, since all they do is log in, and sometimes, quite often in fact, submit photographs that are taken from other peoples publications, some would call that plagiarism, other breach of copyright. Anyway, my friends and I spend a happy hour down the pub every Friday, with lists of photos from books facebook have plundered. On the other hand, it is quite amusing to find that Lindsay Whittle, now after many years an AM, no doubt for long service, confuses the name of a transient Facebook organisation with a long standing History Society which is held with respect in local history circles. But then Lindsay Whittle is not known for getting things right.
@ Nichola, I am amazed at Nicola's comment directed against The Caerphilly Local History Society. She claims that 'hardly anyone has heard of them.' This cannot pass without putting the record straight. Nicola is well aware that a huge amount of material she used in setting up her facebook page was lifted directly from our books, written and published by us. These are clearly marked with our name 'Caerphilly Local History Society'.
I would also like to say that we are not awash with public funds and raise money through the sale of books and subscriptions from members. To publish a new book costs more than £2,600, the costs of providing 6 lectures last year cost us £360, our public liability insurance, which the council now insist upon for us to exhibit in their buildings, cost a further £174. I recently applied for a grant from the borough council to help us publish a book this year, they granted us £120. Yes, that's the level of our public funding.
In our 54 years of serving the people of Caerffili, including Nicola who told me that she owns copies of our books, we have in addition received two grants from the Lottery Heritage fund. Both these grants were spent entirely on specific projects, as per the rules of the lottery. They were for the printing costs of a book for our 50th anniversary and IT equipment for digitising our archive, improving the presentation of our lectures and preserving images of Caerffili for future generations. Nicola and her group are perfectly entitled to apply for the same sort of grant.
I have given hundreds of hours of my time free of any charge, in common with other members of the Society. I have personally given two talks on the history of our town this year, one for the Society and one for the ladies of The Windsor Road Church. The ladies group kindly gave a donation which went into the funds of Caerphilly Local History Society.
I resent the implication that our charity is funded by public money and if Nicola, or anyone else, wishes to see our audited accounts I will make them available. I think it is high time that 'Heritage Caerphilly' or whatever thay decide their name shall be, stop being petty and confrontational and work with us, as all the other local history groups do.
I never wished to upset anyone and always tell everyone about the journals that the society have produced and praise their knowledge, I offered an olive branch when I recently saw Richard, and I thought we were ok but was really disappointed when the society contacted the newspapers complaining about the page. this made me realise the animosity towards us on their part, if we did go for funding I thought it better to apply as a group rather than a charity so that the society will continue to receive the support they already have.
Who are this society, ive never heard of them, what have they ever done in Caerphilly, it must be a secret society then because none of my friends have ever heard of them, where are they based and what's their website?
i like the new name choice, CAERPHILLY HERITAGE, and again congratulate Nichola & Claire for all thier hard work to date,in my opinion you dont have to defend this site ,the huge success says it all, keep up the great work girls,
Neil Jones,Caerphilly resident for past 52 yrs.
Richard there is no need to publish your society's accounts. There are publicly viewable here – http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Showcharity/…
Strictly speaking, they are not using your name. They are not called the Caerphilly Local History Society. They never claimed they was a society. I agree, Lindsay hasn't helped by referring to the Facebook page as the Caerphilly Local History Society.
Nicola has good intentions. After all, she is trying to get the people of Caerphilly interested in a passion of hers. The new social forms of media are ideal for this. Many of us use or know of Facebook especially the younger generation. There seems to be resentment on both sides. Why don't you both work together. Richard, you and your colleagues have worked hard of the years why not use Nicola and Claire's skills in promoting the history of Caerphilly using these new forms of social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc).
If Justine Cox says she has never heard of the Caerphilly Local History Society, she must have been walking around withher eyes closed, since the meetings are advertised every monththrough the winter, as I said I live in Rhiwbina and I have heard of them and go to the occasional meeting. Regarding Neil Jones`scomment, I fail to see what hard work the Facebook Caerphilly Heritage Group have done except use other peoples photos taken from publications of the History Society, publications that I have spent money on buying over the last twenty years, perhaps there is a low level of literacy in Caerphilly, and as such the people of Caerphilly dont buy books preferring to see pretty pictures on the internet.
I dont think that some of the people on here know the true facts,it would be nice now to move on and draw a line under it,it would be a very good idea for Nicola and her friends to change the name now to avoid any further confusion,the name can be changed on the facebook settings edit.
Yes I agree that Nicola and her friends display of photographs of Caerphilly was very good but the facts are some of the pictures did in fact come from books that belong to the original history group and they should have been mentioned where the photographs were taken from,would you be happy if someone was using your work without permission??? Plagiarism thats what it is.
'keep up the good work girls' was said, I agree BUT mention where you got the photographs from after all it is nice to say the least to have credit for all the effort that someone puts in their selves.
I have lived in Caerphilly all my life too 68 years and of course have heard of the ORIGINAL history group,I have got many of their books,Good luck to both groups but remember the word Plagiarism..
Joe Bloggs, the accounts of The Caerphilly Local History Society are not to be found on the Charity Commission website. This is because we do not have a large enough income to be required to do so by the commission.
I am happy to provide accounts for those who believe we are a publicly funded body. A small charge will be made to non members to discourage enquiries of a spurious or malicious nature.
In answer to another comment we are not yet on the internet, though we can be easily found on other organisation's sites. We shall very soon have a web presense, through the efforts of a committee member. We shall not be posting pictures on Facebook though.
Ron are you child? Because you're certainly acting like one. Accusing "the people of Caerphilly" of having low levels of literacy is quite ironic coming from yourself.
Richard good luck with your website. It is a shame you're not embracing Facebook and Twitter.
Well what can I say? In 1 word JEALOUSY! I as a Caerphilly local have thoroughly enjoyed the Facebook page and Exhibition. I was born and bred in Caerphilly Town and I know not of the Historical Society, so their obviously doing something wrong! I did stumble across a very small table in a corner inside the Twyn Community Centre whilst visiting this years Flower Festival, all I can say is that for a 54 year long established society what a very poor show! Appalling actually, far more interested in selling their book. As a society maybe you should concentrate more on bringing interest to Caerphilly residents and not people from Rhiwbina, and lastly for grown men running a History Society instead of bashing your opposition maybe you should act in your own interests, by growing up, swallowing your stupid pride and realising that you shouldn't be bitter because they are far more popular, as it makes your society look even smaller and uninteresting than it clearly already is.
And as for charging a small fee, well you really do look like money grabbers! Do you have a constitution? because I think it may need questioning.
Rhiannon,I don't think you know the full facts? The original History society had photographs copied from their books and were put on display by the Facebook history group,do you think it is ok to do this without asking and without saying where the photographs were taken from,after all it's someone else's work and they should at least asked for permission ,as for people not knowing the first original history group,I and many many Caerphilly residents do know this group and have bought many of their books,I don't know if you are on the Facebook group but at the moment people on there are not aware of the true facts and that is their(the original history group) photos have been used without asking if they can do so,in a nut shell I don't think it is fair on the original group not to even get a mention,I think the Facebook group is a nice idea but it should not claim that the photos are theirs.if someone does not live in Caerphilly are they not allowed to show a interest in Caerphillys History? What if Cardiff residents told Caerphilly folk that they should not show any interest in Cardiffs history or any where else for that matter.I wish both groups success and if the Facebook group lasts as long as the original group then they have done well,I recommend the original Caerphillys history books for anyone who enjoys a good read.p.s I think the sooner the facebook group change their name it will be better for the two groups to avoid any further confusion..
Rhiannon we research and publish our work Caerffili history for all people, whether they live in Rhiwbina or the United States of America. If you did not like our presentation of flowers and history that is your perogative. If you have ideas on improvement I would be glad to hear them. The residents of the Castle View Residential Home were certainly appreciative of the donation of our floral display and I have a letter of appreciation from them.
Unlike you I do not see Nicola's group as 'Opposition' because what they do is completely different from what our charity has done for nore than half a century. I wish Nicola every success in popularising local history, but there are rules. We have a name, registered with the Charity Commission of England and Wales and we respectfully ask anybody who uses our published material to obtain permission first and to credit our (unpaid) historians for the work they put in to produce the books used online. Perhaps Rhiannon thinks that this is unreasonable?
We are not just 'grown men' but many women too, and yes, we do have a constitution.
An educated person myself copying someone else's work Dave is called plagiarism! I am fully aware of the facts and I will state that many of the Facebook photographs do have a reference or have been displayed from original source, maybe this is the cause of the sour grapes the history society are displaying! Fact is Facebook page and their exhibition was and is far more popular than the The local History Society, this I believe is down to their prehistoric running of their society, Facebook is whether you like it or not a hugely popular social network and the Internet is the way forward! It is also free & the main reason for Nicola Rhys's huge success is down to the fact that the local history of the 60's, 70's, 80's etc are being covered, this is what the new generation want! We have all seen the old photos before, now it's time for progress, this is where the history society falls down, I suggest they either move over and let somebody competent who knows what the people want such as Nicola Rhys take over or adopt some new strategies. In a nutshell Caerphilly Local History Society are outdated, boring and should not be bitter about somebody else's success just because they have not managed to hold the publics interest.
So Rhiannon thinks that because I live in Rhiwbina I should not have an interest in Caerphilly, the town I grew up in. Its a pity the people who claim to live in Caerphilly, havent noticed the History Society books on sale in the shops, and the meetings advertised in the shop windows, talk about blinkered vision. On another level, living outside the town, can I see a hidden agenda?, are we really to believe that Lindsay Whittle made an error in referring the Face Book Group as The Caerphilly Local History Society. If its an error it does not bode well for his performance as an Assembly Member, in politics detail is everything, if he makes a mistake on something that is a trivial as the name of a History Society, what happens when he`s loose in the corridors of power?. Or is this part of Plaid Cymrus dirty tricks division, to question the validity of the existing History Society, in order to attack the the Chairman, who is from, I believe another party. To clear the air, perhaps Lindsay should apologise for his mistake, or perhaps there really is an hidden agenda.
Rhiannon,The Facebook group did not mention the source of the photos in the ExhibItion the photographs were copied and on the bottom of the photograph where it should mention the origin it was left blank.
At one stage Nicola said she did not know the original group existed I find that odd as loads of photos were taken from the original histories books,now she is saying that she is keeping the same name,don't you think in both party's interests it would be better to change the name if it's that strong a name change won't affect it.
I don't think it's right that certain councillors are bickering on here,some people never learn they will end up in court again if they are not careful,I think that Lindsay whittle should reply to these posts .
In a nutshell a few mistakes have been made and I think that the facebook group should learn from this,I wonder if Caerphilly County Council or Cadw will be involved in any future dealings with the Facebook group if they insist on using someone else's name which has been in use for 50 odd years ?
Yes I agree the Facebook group is popular but so is the long standing facebook group too.
So we will see if the Facebook group change their name or as you put it keep the name of a society that is outdated,Caerphilly Local History Society the original one will be around for many more years to come I am sure.good luck to both groups but let's at least be upfront and say where the work is really coming from.
Correction,yes I agree the Facebook group is popular but so is The long standing Original Caerphilly History Society.
I have always promoted the society and their journals because they have inspired me, Journal 8 is my favourite and Richards definitive article on pubs did arouse my interest in local establishments, someone saw one of the photos in Journal 8 which was sourced and asked me where he could buy the journal so I sent him a link, now I don't think that's a bad thing but if Richard would like me to remove all the society's photos then I will
Nicola, I have always thought that the photos should have a tag on them saying where you got them from even though Rihanon has said that they are well she is totally wrong I just saw well over 60 photos then I stopped counting without any mention whatsoever of their source,also you say you are going to keep the name,I think you will find yourself in a very difficult situation in the future as you know the original Caerphilly History Society are a registered charity and it COULD be thought that you are misleading the public ie that You are the registered group,I would be changing the name and at least tagging the photos to say their source,I believe when you set up the facebook page you had and STILL do had good ententions ,I also think that one or two people are not giving you good advice it's so easy to reply to you post saying 'well done' re you keeping the name but I strongly feel it won't be in your best interests at all ,it makes me laugh that same person cannot look after his own affairs let alone encourage you with BAD advice,this could really go sour so why not change your name? You have a enough support of the people who like to look at photos personally I also like a good read hence the fact I have the Caerphilly books which I love.
Wether someone has been living in Caerphilly all his/her life does not come into the issue at present,then again they don't know the true facts and just loosely say you don't have to defend your site but as you know actually you do have to defend your actions then again bad advice from some just because he has lived in Caerphilly for many years so what?
As you know Caerphilly's history is loved by many people across the world.
IPlease don't get me wrong I am not trying to upset you but give you what I believe is the best way forward,good luck to you and your team also to the original Caerphilly History Society Group.
Dave, I have never said that I didnt know about the history society
There doesn't have to be room for two societies because this Facebook page isn't a society. Nicola and Claire never intended it to be. All they are doing is trying to get people interested in the history of Caerphilly. Over 500 million people use Facebook isn't this an ideal place to promote the history of our town? There is only one "Caerphilly Local History Society" and that's the one which has been around since 1957. People will enjoy our history through the society and now they can enjoy it through this page. Increasing the accessibility of our history is a good thing. Can't we all just get along and let bygones be bygones.
Where excatley did the Caerphilly History society get the photo's from in the first place ? Some which date back to the 1800's. Did you or your chairman personlley take them or did the society find them in someone else's books ? You obviously enjoy viewing all the photo's on here, and i personally take offence at your comment "that an intellectual history society is for those that can read and a Facebook site is for those who can't ". I'm perfectly capable of reading as are all the followers of Nicola's wonderful page. We choose to look at and enjoy all of the photo's ~90% of which i may add have been donated by fans of this page from their own personal collections and hey unbelievably we can read the information that come with them as well.. If you don't like to see your YOUR Chairman be verbally abused then i suggest you leave the site and all the illiteral people on Face book .. .
Im 19, I have always enjoyed history and recently gained my A Level but I have never been interested in local history, recently my friends told me about the page, now im addicted and everyones talking about it, I think its a great site and think its unfair that derogatory remarks are being made about it, the site is becoming huge all over the world and that has got to be a good thing for Caerphilly and its people.
Calm down children! This has nothing to do with politics.
It seems to me that the original Caerphilly Local History Society consists of an elite group of elderly members who feel threatened by the Facebook Caerphilly Local History site. I have lived in the Caerphilly area for 51 years and have gained very little information from the original Society whereas the Facebook site has provided me with a huge amount of information in a very short time. It's a pity that the original Society did not take advantage of social network sites in order to promote themselves and gain new members. If it had done then the Facebook site would not have been needed.
I agree that the Facebook site should acknowledge the origins of photos, stories etc. which they use on their site. Surely this can be done and the squabbling can come to an end?
Perhaps it would be better if, as suggested by Nicola Rees, all the photos from the History Society Journal and books published by the Society members, were removed from the Facebook site, and the Facebook group changed its name to Caerphilly Heritage, then there would be nothing to squabble over, and sheep could safely graze.
Ron James, I don't think that you are the best person to comment on what should or should not be on the Facebook site when all you have done up until now is use this blog to besmirch Lindsay Whittle's reputation with your "hidden agenda."
If I may answer the comments from A Caerphilly Adult, I am able to comment because I am from the town originally and still have an interest, which is why I atend the odd meetimg of the History Society and look at the Caerphilly Observer, which is a useful online newspaper. About thirty years ago there were a series of books with a title like "Abercwmscwt in Old Photographs", the FaceBook site is a bit like that, a collection of old photographs. The major difference being that in Abercwmscwt in Old Photographs, the photos were captioned with a short informative text. The only photographs with captions on Facebook are those "borrowed" from books like "Around Caerphilly", published by the Caerphilly Local History Society. So if people are learning about the history of Caerphilly from Facebook, its only from the photos originating from the History Society. Most, if not all, of the other photos are published with, at most, the name of the location, and no reference to the date or context of the photograph, so it is not possible to learn any of the history of Caerphilly from an uncaptioned photograph.In fact in some cases they ask the location of the photo, which doesnt indicate a deep knowledge of the history of the town. This was a major failing of their exhibition, just tens of photographs under titles like Industry or Castle Street, but telling you nothing about the Industry or how and why Castle Street developed. Which is why, in Caerphilly like most towns, you have a History Society,sometimes composed of elite old men, but mostly composed of people of all ages and social groups, who have a genuine common interest in the history of the area, and want to explain the history of the town.
?**Quoted from Ron James on Lyndsay's blog ..Anyway, my friends and I spend a happy hour down the pub every Friday, with lists of photos from books facebook have plundered. On the other hand, it is quite amusing to find that Lindsay Whittle, now after many years an AM, no doubt for long service, confuses the name of a transient Facebook organisation with a long standing History Society which is held with respect in local history circles. But then Lindsay Whittle is not known for getting things right.——————–
IF MR JAMES DOESN'T USE FACEBOOK WHERE IS HE SEEING THE PHOTO'S THAT HAVE SUPPOSEDLY BEEN PLUNDERED ? AND WHILE ON THE SUBJECT OF PLUNDERING MR JAMES, COULD YOU EXPLAIN WHY MRS SHIRLEY ROCK WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE HISTORY SOCIETY HAD 42 OF NICOLA'S PHOTOGRAPHS PRINTED OFF FOR HER OWN USE AT THE EXHIBITION , IS SHE PLUNDERING THEM FOR THE SOCIETY OR IS SHE JUST BORED WITH LOOKING AT THE SAME OLD PHOTO'S IN THE 8 SOCIETY BOOKS ? I ALSO THINK THAT YOU'RE TURNING THIS DISCUSSION INTO A POLITICAL THING WITH YOUR COMMENTS ON LYNDSAY WHITTLE..IS THAT BECAUSE WAYNE DAVID IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE HISTORY SOCIETY OR DO YOU JUST ENJOY SLAGGING PEOPLE OFF ?
I totally agree with what Ron is saying and he is no relation by the way.
What I cannot understand that some people seem to think that they have to live in Caerphilly to enjoy it's history what a load of rubbish.
As I have said in a earlier post I honestly think it's in Nicola's interests to Change the name ,Nicola you don't have to set a new page up you can edit your current page so that way you still keep all your friends.
Re Lindsay Whittle I cannot see that he has done any wrong all he said was the truth but it do seem some people on here have political issues,I think that should be left out as it's got nothing to do with Nicola's page on Facebook.so I hope that the name is changed as soon as possible to stop all the bickering ,like I've said before when the facebook group change their name and tag the origin of the photo displayed I cannot see that Nicola's group will cause any problems,good luck with it and I hope it continues to still give many people across the world the joy that it has,once again good luck to BOTH groups.
I have just read on Nicola's Facebook page that she will NOT be changing the name,think hard Nicola as you know the original Caerphilly History Society is a registered Charity,personally I think you are going to make a BIG mistake by keeping the Original History's name.
I wonder what Mr Richard Williams will think of your intentions?
I'm only a young un and very interested in the history of our village. I've read lots of history books. My nan introduced me to Nicola's page and i love it 🙂 I've learnt so much from looking at the old photo's on her page of how Caerphilly used to look and reading people's memmories. I think Mr.Ron James is a really rude man by saying there must be a low level of literacy in Caerphilly. I CAN READ Mr.James..English and Welsh , i think Nicola's page is so good that i've introduced a lot of friends to it and THEY CAN ALSO READ !!
We are a Facebook page, nothing else and as Richard said he will not be using Facebook so our paths will not cross.
Whow, a rave from the grave, my words have woken the dead, Alice de la Marche, aka the Green Lady, was the first wife of Gilbert de Clare, but according to Prof William Rees she died seven hundred years ago. Obviuosly, her ghost can read English as well as Latin and Norman French, so I was wrong about the level of literacy in Caerphilly. Seriously, isnt about time this petty squabbling stopped, it might make amusing reading in a wet August, but its getting boring.
Living, dare I say it in Rhiwbina, its somewhat ironic that to quote Richard Williams.
The Caerphilly Local History Society was set up by local historians (Prominent Plaid Cymru member H.P. Richards was one)in 1957 as a result of comments by some Labour party members that Wales had no separate history.
Today, on the other hand, we have Wayne David, a Labour MP as President,and a Plaid AM confuses the name of the Society, or is that why the Facebook Group was set up?.
In answer To Ron James, I did not say that you were unable to comment. Please read posts properly before replying. However, I do agree with you that these Local History Societies are "sometimes composed of elite old men." I presume that this is true of the Caerphilly Society?
Well said "A Young Fan." It's good to see that young people are being inspired by the Facebook site to research their local history. It's a pity that the Local History Society has kept such a low profile and hasn't been able to achieve similar interest.
Caerphilly Adult, why presume anything about The Caerphilly Local History Society? Why not write from possession of the facts? I have had a chuckle over the 'elite old men' garbage, makes me sound like an éminence grise. Our committee of 9 has a range of ages and is comprised of both genders. Our youngest committee member is female and 31.
The society welcomes participation from all, young or old, and unlike some commentators to this blog do not write off people because they are not youthful. They were once, but in maturity they are often a lot wiser and certainly worth listening to.
Well I thought that the problems had been solved,sorry but credit should go to Caerphilly History Society for letting the Facebook group use their photos ,I still believe that it would be in Nicola's interests to change the name as she is using the name of a registered charity,I think that Mr Richard Williams has been very fair in all this,
Please can you tell me what wrong have Lindsay Whittle done? Because I can't see any problem with him saying the truth like he has done saying that there is a original Caerphilly History Society so the facebook group are going to change their name to The Caerphilly Heritage ,the name change can be done in a instant on Facebook so why not do it?? Remember two wrongs don't make a right ,the rowing with each other is going to go on and on and I agree it's become very childish.in a nutshell do the right thing Nicola by changing the name and tag each pic with it's origin,good luck to both groups I hope this is sorted once and for all .
I wanted to congratulate the Caerphilly Local History Society on their very successful photographic exhibition and artefacts which attracted thousands of visitors.
I notice that they have changed their name now to avoid a clash of names with the long established history society that has also done sterling work for our town over years. I’m told the Facebook group will now be Caerphilly Heritage.
Their collection is definitely worth a viewing.
THE ABOVE WAS SAID BY MR LINDSAY WHITTLE,WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT? I CANNOT SEE ANY THING WRONG?
1) to a Caerphilly Adult
How do you describe this statement of yours, to me it suggests you think I am unable to comment on the Facebook site
I don’t think that you are the best person to comment on what should or should not be on the Facebook site when all you have done up until now is use this blog to besmirch Lindsay Whittle’s reputation with your “hidden agenda.”
as regards elite old men, what I said was
Which is why, in Caerphilly like most towns, you have a History Society,sometimes composed of elite old men, but mostly composed of people of all ages and social groups, who have a genuine common interest in the history of the area, and want to explain the history of the town.
If "A Young Fan" goes solely by the information given by the Facebook sites, he, or she, will get little information, while not a member of the Society, the only Facebook photos with captions are those "borrowed" from the Local History Society publications. If "A Young Fan" wants to learn more about the history of Caerphilly, they need to read the History Society Publications, which actually have captions on their photgraphs giving details of the photo, and then perhaps read all eight of their Journals.
How do I change my Page name?
If an error was made in your Page name when it was created, you have the option to edit the Page name to correct this issue. This option is only limited to Pages with less than 100 connections. After selecting to edit your Page, you can adjust this information from the "Basic Information" section.
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Dave the whole point of these comments is that the Exhibition was not carried out by the CAERPHILLY LOCAL HISTORY SOCIETY, but by a Facebrook group calling themselves CAERPHILLY LOCAL HISTORY which sounds as if its same organistion but isnt. That is what is what is wrong with Lindsay Whittles comment, he mixed up the two organisations. And as an ousider but an attender of some meetings of the SOCIETY, I wonder if the similarity in the name is intentional, hoping to confuse people, as it obviuosly as Lindsay Whittle.
For crying out loud, all this over a name and a few photos! No one is making any money out of this! Facebook is for sharing and unless Nicola is passing the photos off as her own then it is not plagiarism. Let's embrace and share the history of Caerphilly and be happy that people are still interested in the place!
To Ron, I now understand what you mean,hence the issue of having two groups with the Same name.
To Nicola, hiya it can be done a friend of mine changed the name of his group ,try and ask someone who is into computers,if I can be of any further help just ask..regards
A Young Fan” goes solely by the information given by the Facebook sites, he, or she, will get little information, while not a member of the Society, the only Facebook photos with captions are those “borrowed” from the Local History Society publications. If “A Young Fan” wants to learn more about the history of Caerphilly, they need to read the History Society Publications, which actually have captions on their photgraphs giving details of the photo, and then perhaps read all eight of their Journals.
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Mr, James, My grandfather has all 8 of the Caerphilly history society books which i have read . Some are good and some bore me. I haven't learnt history by soley looking at Facebook sites. Nicola's site is informative and she brings the pictures alive by asking people to post their memmories of places that people of my grandparents generation remember and have told me about. Without these photo's i wouldn't have known for example what Morgan Jones's swimming pool looked like or Penyrheol station where my grandparents used to take the train into Caerphilly. I don't need or want to join your society thank you very much, i'd feel a bit out of place sitting in the weslylan chapel or going to a flower exhibtion. If i need to ask for information on the photo's that are on the Facebook site then i only have to ask and Nicola will do her best to find the answer and not from your books may i add. There's also Google and i take history in school. P.S. I still think that you're a very rude man !
To a 'young fan' I think its great that you like the photos on Nicola's site and that she helps you. I do believe that Nicola herself will tell you how useful our books are in answering questions on local history, not to mention Glyn Jones' superb 'Cronicl Caerffili.' Glyn gave me written permission to use, and edit, any of his material in any way I wished, a wonderful gift from the doyen of Caerffili historians.
Why not come along to one of our talks? Pick the one whose title interests you most, guests only pay £1.50. I've seen dearer cups of coffee. You will probably enjoy the talk and have the opportunity to ask questions and get answers from a speaker who is expert in their field.
If you decide its not for you then there are no hard feelings and it has not cost you a lot of money. I started out this way and got hooked on a brilliant subject, the history of where I live.
So "A Young Fan" thinks I`m a very rude man. My interest in this started because, for a while I lived in America, where the concept of intellectual copyright is paramount.
The writer Ayn Rand has argued that the protection of intellectual property is essentially a moral issue. The belief is that the human mind itself is the source of wealth and survival and that all property at its base is intellectual property. To violate intellectual property is therefore no different morally than violating other property rights which compromises the very processes of survival and therefore constitutes an immoral act
So imagine my surprise when surfing the web, I came across Caerphilly Local History on Facebook, coming originally from Caerphilly, I recognised many of the photographs, which I had seen in the publications of the History Society. So, " A Young Fan", if you think I`m a very rude man, what do you call someone who for example, takes EVERY photograph from a book called Around Caerphilly, which is copyrighted to Simon Eckly and the Caerphilly Local History Society, and publishes them on Facebook as their own property, and not just one book but almost every book the History Society has produced. The principle here is one of copyright and intellectual property. A matter which affects everyone, and is not just a mere squabble over a name.
What a fantastic argument. THIS IS WHAT THE WEB IS FOR!
If you'll forgive a foreigner (from Ceredigion, with no ducks in this race) butting in: is this the page you're all getting so worked up about? https://www.facebook.com/CaerphillyLocalHistory
If so, "Caerphilly Local History" isn't the name of a society, it's the description of a Facebook page. Nobody coming across that page on Facebook, who hadn't first come across this ridiculous storm in a teacup, would think that the page had any connection to a bricks and mortar historical society. The fact that members of the local history society think that this page is some kind of rival "society" just shows that they don't understand Facebook. That's no crime, but once you've proven you don't understand something, it's often a good idea to STOP DIGGING.
You can't change the name of a Facebook page once it's set. You just can't. Facebook doesn't have that option. It's impossible.
The only option open to the administrators of the page would be to delete the page completely, thus losing the connection to over 850 (mostly young) people who are currently following the page, and all the content currently displayed there. Then a new page would have to be set up, with a name that doesn't upset the good people of the Local History Society, and eventually people would find their way to that one, and the collection of material could start anew.
That might smooth a few feathers, but surely a better option would be for the handful of Local History Society members who are complaining about this to realise that they're being a bit silly, and are actively working against the promotion of interest in local history in Caerffili.
It wouldn't hurt, either, for the admins of the Facebook page to add credits to any pictures taken from CLHS publications, and maybe a link to where these books may be purchased. If the CLHS doesn't have a website, perhaps someone from the Facebook group would be willing to help them set one up. It would take an afternoon.
If you'd rather take the other path and CRUSH THE OPPOSITION, then you might have a case for copyright infringement against people who have posted pictures from your publications on the Facebook page, if you can prove that you own the copyright on those images. You might get some money out of it, but the most obvious result will be to alienate a good swath of Caerffili youth and to ensure that your esteemed Society fades away at roughly the same time as you all pass on to your reward.
P.S. To actual young people, kids who are still in school, a 31 year old is a bearded ancient, even if she is a female. By gender.
Amused Cardi, Personally I don't think it is right that a Facebook group is using the name of a registered charity and think it would be in both party's interests if the name is changed.
When the photos were copied can you tell me why was the source of the photos left out ? I am not talking about one or two pics but most of them.
I would not be happy too if someone set up a display of my work without permission or naming the source,I think that the original society have been more than fair so far,but getting back to the name what if I set up a Barnardo's page don't you think that people will think it's the registered charity? this is the problem by using the original name of the society which is and I say it again A REGISTERED CHARITY.
Why don't Nicola message her friends in a group message and tell them to join the new page? I feel this is the only way forward ,I know that Nicola has a genuine interest in Caerphillys history and that she worked hard along with Claire,Kevin,Phil and his wife,but come on if you want to put a show on next year do the right thing change the name and source the photos it's the right thing do .Good luck to both groups.
Well said Amused Cardi. I agree with all your comments about the Caerphilly Local Hysterical Society.
Why are people afraid to use their real names? I hope that Richard Williams now takes the the correct action as it's quite obvious that the Facebook group NEED to use the name of a Registered Charity it could well lead to a number of problems for the Facebook group,oh well I have tried to help them but they seem to insist they want the name of a group that's been in use for over 50 years,if and when the Original Caerphilly History Society taken the right action then something will have to be done,a member of the public has a right to inform the Charity Commission that a registered charitys name is being used..also Caerphilly Council and Cadw should be informed just no to confuse the public.
We are not a group, the Exhibition was a one off, The Societys photos will be removed and all photos are currently being sourced.
Nicola,I have found this on Facebook.
You can submit a name change request through the "Name" section of your Account Settings page. From this page you can also list an alternate name such as your maiden name.
To encourage people to use their real names on Facebook, we limit the number of times names can be changed. If a Facebook representative changes your name for you, this change is considered final and you can’t manually change your name afterwards.
Please note that Facebook account names must adhere to the following authenticity standards:
Your full first and last name must be listed.
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Impersonating anyone or anything is not permitted
Regarding the use of a registered charity's name, I have taken this from the website of the Charity Commission:
31. Entering a name on the Register does not give the charity which uses it any rights to the name under general law.
I am not impersonating anyone.
The Caerphilly Local History Facebook HAS been set up as a Facebook Page not an Account.
I have never met Nicola and I joined the Facebook Page on a recommendation from a friend. To my knowledge, Nicola has not impersonated any person or organisation.
I still find it strange that you want to use the name of a established registered charity,even though you said you were aware that they existed .if someone did complain I am sure you will be asked to refrain from doing so.
As it seems to be quite a issue re the ages of the members of the original society and you say you have loads of young people on your Facebook page well most of them are well into their 50s not that it's a problem as far as I am concerned but the facts are clear you have got a lot of your members being older than the original society makes me want to chuckle,if you removed the photos taken from the original society would you have any left to show?
If I was setting up a Facebook Page about the local history of Machen, I would probably call it Machen Local History. Surely this is all that happened here?
I was aware they existed but under the name of Caerphilly Historical Society, thats what I thought anyway. The removal of the societys photos wont really make a difference to the 1300 photos.
FROM RON JAMES COMMENT ABOVE.——–perhaps there is a low level of literacy in Caerphilly, and as such the people of Caerphilly dont buy books preferring to see pretty pictures on the internet.
I'D SAY THAT WAS A PRETTY RUDE REMARK TO MAKE MR. JAMES.
Well that's the good thing about Google,you can always do some research first,
I don't know why the origin of the photo's was left blank when they had been copied?
I still believe it would be better for you to change the name,then next year when you have a exhibition no one can say anything,then you can sit back and say it was ALL your own work..
Good luck.
Wow Dave, you certaiinly like to run with the Fox and the hounds don't you ? I'm a fan of Nicola's page it's Called Caerphilly Local History ( no society mentioned as she's Not or as she ever claimed to be a society or a charity come to that ) All Nicola has done is to set up a page that we can all enjoy for free.No one asked us to follow her page, we do it because we enjoy it. Nicola and her colleague Clare have worked dam hard spending money out of their own pockets on petrol to run around the valley gathering photo's donated by a lot of very kind people who have contacted her because they enjoy her page and want to share their old photo's with us. She's encouraged us all, young and old to enjoy history and discuss in a friendly manner the memmories we have of places in Caerphilly and surrounding areas. By the way Nicola is correct when she says she has a lot of young people who view her site. Do you spend most of your time clicking away trying to find out the ages of the people on her list of friends ? I'll save you the trouble of looking for me Dave..i'm 63 my husband is 65. My 4 grandchildren , niece's and nephews who all enjoy Nicola's page range between the ages of 16- 28. That's just my family, there's many, many more youngsters, but the list is too long to put on here. In answer to your question re if she removed the photo's of the original society would she have any left to show ? OH YES she'd have hundreds and all donated by people who want to share, myself included.
Janet jones.maybe you can tell me why did the copied photos have the source removed? Let's hope next years show will be a true show of your photos and not just copied from someone else without a mention for donated photos.
Re the ages as your so interested yes I already know you have told me nothing new as I have friends on there in your age group,it's a shame that some of the Facebook group could not give some sound advice to Nicola rather than bickering all the time like you all have been doing,I find you rather amusing and are more than bored with you same old comments,so can you tell me when the New name is going to be used Caerphilly Heritage or is the name of the original croup still being used? I can't see why you still want to hang on to it ,just change it then you won't be confusing people.
An American friend of mine once said, Remember when you`re up to your a*** in alligators, the initial object was to drain the swamp. In all these 65 comments we seem to have lost sight of the real question, did Lindsay make a genuine mistake, with the name, or is the scuttlebut on the streets true, that this whole fiasco, because it is a fiasco, arose because of political differences on the Town Council, and they wanted to hassle Richard Williams?.
Dave, Im sorry but do you know something I dont, you keep mentioning next years show, it is a page, not a group.
Nicola, if I remember correctly you did say that you were having a show next year in Caerphilly Castle is this still going ahead ?
Dave James, I think Nicola has answered your question about the photo's umpteen times and told you that the exhibition was a one off, so there won't be another one next year, and the photo's that she has on there from other people are being sourced. You should ask your friends to check again as there are photo's on there that Nicola has thanked people for donating to the page. I don't see any of the Facebook group bickering, the only one i see is Ron James useing this as a political plateform to belittle Lyndsay Whittle and to imply that the people of Caerphilly are illiterate because we choose to look at pretty pictures rather than read. He must be refering to your friends as well i guess, as you said they use Facebook. Nicola met with Richard Williams before she had her exhibition he was fine about it at the time and shook her hand. So why is he only now complaining ? You asked why people don't use their real names. Well why don't you tell us a little about yourself, are you a member of the history society, do you know Nicola and her colleagues personally ? All we know is that one minute your wishing Nicola Good luck and handing out what was in my opion good advice.. then you can't see anything wrong with Lyndsay's comment and now you'd obviously like to see her reported ? …. a member of the public has a right to inform the Charity Commission that a registered charitys name is being used..also Caerphilly Council and Cadw should be informed just no to confuse the public -YOUR WORDS. What exactly are you getting out of this ? If your bored with the all the comments why are you still commenting ? I've no idea when Nicola will be using the new name maybe you should go on Facebook yourself or ask one of your friends to ask her. While we're on the subject of questions.. Can YOU tell me Why Mrs. Shirley Rock who IS a member of the history society went to the exhibition on several occasions and asked for 42 photo's that fans of Nicola's page had donated to be copied for her ? I hope she's not planning on giving them to the society without saying where she got them from.
I said we had been approached, and a lot can happen in a year.
Janet jones,you are only repeating what's already been said.
I still stand by what I believe is the best thing for Nicola and that was to change the name to save her anymore hassle,after all it's Nicola who has worked hard putting on the exhibition not you.
As regards to your political message I am not interested like I say I would NOT like to see any further bickering towards Nicola it really looks like that you have miss read this,maybe you want to continue the bickering I for one don't as I am not as childish as you may think.
Once again I wish Nicola all the best and if she does have another showing of photos I will be the first to lend her mine.
The answer to your question am I a member of the original group ? No I have NO connection what so ever.
Let's hope if there is a show from Nicola next year that she gets the praise she deserves,ok mistakes have been made but no one is perfect are they.
I do not feel I have any need to reply to you Janet Jones.Thank you and goodbye.
The suggestion that Nicola may hold another exhibtion next year, if asked, opens a can of worms. Who was responsible for this years exhibition, I found it odd, that the History Society, with all its apparent wealth, were crammed onto one table in the crowded Twyn, yet, the three month old impoverished Facebook Group, were able to have an exhibition that took up the entire lower hall of the Tourist Office.Not only that, they could afford huge banners publicising their Caerphilly Local History Exhibition. Banners that must have confused people over the identity of the organisers, because, I admit I was for a while, until I saw the poor quality of the exhibition, which consisted of A4 pictures stuck on the wall without any reference or context to what they were, and realised that the History Society would have put on a more informative well rounded display. In addition, this exhibition occupied the Tourist Centre for weeks until the Big Cheese. Perhaps Nicola it would help if you said who asked the new Facebook Group to put on the exhibition, using photos "borrowed" from the History Society`s publications,rather than the History Society itself, and who paid for it. It would also be informative to know why the council did not approach the 50year old History Society to hold an exhibition of their photographs.
I had no help cost wise, the bsnner I managed to get free by the company sponsoring, and the photos were printed off by our own printers
Ron,I was so impressed with the exhibition I drove up from West Wales(St Clears)twice to see it,It seems to me Ron that you are a very jealous person who doesn't like to see The group doing well.Look at how many people follow her on Facebook,doesn't that tell you anything,I donated a few photo's of Caerphilly's past to her group and I have had some very nice comments made about them as is the same of other users photo's.The best thing for you I think Ron is to stop making stupid comments and go and look for something else to do with your life.I lived in Caerphilly for 40yrs and I have never heard of CLHS and that is the truth.I back Nicola and Clare all the way on this.They have worked so hard on this group to bring knowledge of our past back to Caerphilly people far and wide.I wish no ill feeling towards CLHS but I now think its time to let this arguement drop.
To Ron James, just to put the record straight,I understand that Nicola asked herself if she could put the exhibition on and she was NOT approached by the council and did not have to pay for the room below the tourist centre,I was told this when I visited the exhibition,in other words Ron she got off her butt and did something for the people ,there is nothing of course to stop anyone else doing the same.
I also think it's about time now everyone moved on and leave Nicola alone as I have said before mistakes have been made and I'm sure people will learn by it.no one came to Nicola but she went and asked just to remind you.
I wish Nicola all the best for next years show if it takes place and still think I would be good for her to change the name for one reason to let the people know that she has got no connection with the original group,I think that you can Ron go and ask the other group if they intend to put on a exhibition. The people of Caerphilly and dave in west Wales are all supporting Nicola,now that you know Ron that Nicola was not approached I wonder if you feel different now you know the facts?
Nicola I'm looking forward to next years show,see you there.
Ron another thing,I think that you are the only one then who thought that the exhibition was of very poor standard,On the two occasions when I went,it was full of people praising the display of photos.As for the council not approaching CLHS maybe they looked and thought that Nicola and Clare's display was the better choice.Also talking about people of Caerphilly being illiterate,I notice that the comments that you have made contain some very bad typing errors,Maybe Ron you should go back to school and learn how to put sentences together..
Thank you to both Daves.
The Council did NOT approach Nicola,like I have said Nicola got off her butt and decided that she wanted to put the show on.
Why should Caerphilly Council approach CLHS? I am sure that if they did want to put on a exhibition then it's up to them to arrange it NOT the council,maybe now that we will have a BIG show from the CLHS,who knows.these are the facts Ron,I am sure Nicola will tell you what I am saying is correct.
To Dave James. I know we got off to a bad start, but i would like to thank you for supporting Nicola in your comment to Ron James. Nicola did indeed get off her butt as your rightly said, she asked if she could borrow the room to hold the exhibition for the people to see and enjoy the collection of photo's. The Tourist information centre were more than happy to oblige. Infact the exhibition actually doubled the takeings of the Tourist information centre for the duration of the exhibition. Yes some of the history society's photo's were on show but anyone who asked where they could purchase the Journals of Caerphilly from were directed to the information centre. Now that can't be a bad thing can it ? The history society could have done the same. There was no charge for admission and no profit made. In fact, Nicola, Clare , Phil and Kevin gave their time freely. They used their own printers and as you probably know if anyone asked for a photocopy of the photo's that had been donated, they were more than happy to oblige useing ink paid for out of their pockets. Thousands of people visited the exhibition during the time they were there and left wonderful comments in the visitors book. I never claimed to put any hard work into the Exhibiton Dave. That as you rightly said was down to Nicola. Yes , she's made mistakes but they were never made intentionaly and like you i hope she changes the name of her page just to keep the peace and stop people like Ron trying to belittle her. She's worked so hard on this and deserves nothing but praise for bringing the community together, shareing her photo's and encouraging them to share their memmories on her page. Her page is not only enjoyed and talked about only in Caerphilly but all over the world.
Yes, you are correct Dave, I approached the Council and did not receive any help towards funding the Exhibition.
Just for information the Caerphilly Local History Society does put on exhibitions, book launches and organises the Open Day at the Twyn which invites groups such as the Winding House Museum Volunteers, Glamorgan Family History Society, Menter Cymru, Bedwas & Trethomas History Soc., Gelli Gaer History Soc., etc.
We also attend the One Beat exhibition annually, and represent Caerphilly at Cardiff City Hall every 4 years. This year, unlike any previous year, the council has insisted that we take out public liability insurance to exhibit in their buildings and also required a risk assessment. We complied with both these stipulations at a cost of £174 insurance premium.
We are to repeat the 'Nature Meets Industry' exhibit at Van Rd. Church open day on 17th September and will follow with the launch of a new book, hopefully, before the end of this year.
This book will include the story of the remarkable Reverend Bush who founded the Van Rd. church and community centre, the Goodrich family, The Green Lady, Ifor Bach, Somerset miners who migrated to Caerphilly and much more. Additionally a committee member and author, Dennis Sellwood, has produced a pamphlet on the history of the Caerphilly cenotaph and the Senghenydd War Memorial. I believe this is to be made available via the British Legion but anybody who would like a copy can obtain one from our Society.
It is sad to think that 90 years after our community raised funds for a memorial to those who lost their lives in 'the war to end wars' our sons and daughters are still doing their duty and risking death. As Dennis concludes, in his pamphlet, "As our present-day service men and women fight and die in foreign parts the cenotaph, fittingly renovated, continues to focus our thoughts, individually and communally, on duty done and sacrifices made."
To quote Janet Jones,
"The Tourist information centre were more than happy to oblige. Infact the exhibition actually doubled the takeings of the Tourist information centre for the duration of the exhibition. Yes some of the history society’s photo’s were on show but anyone who asked where they could purchase the Journals of Caerphilly from were directed to the information centre. Now that can’t be a bad thing can it ?"
The Journals of the Caerphilly Local History Society are, unfortuately, not on sale at the visitor centre and have not been for some time. Nicola knows this and shares my opinion that books should be on sale there.
After a lengthy meeting, between the manager of the centre and Caerphilly Local History Society members, we hope that sales will resume at the end of September.
Thank You Jan, I must say I am disappointed that my interest in local History has turned out to be such a negative thing, and in hindsight wish perhaps that I stuck to other areas of History.
I did tell visitors that they were being sold in Morgans Newsagents.
Nicola, You made the right choice after all Caerphilly is your Town.
Yes you have always told people where they can get the Caerphilly books from,in fact you told a friend of mine when he visited you exhibition.
I really think that it is now going around in circles looks like Nicola can't win BUT I think all she needs to do is change the name and look forward to the future exhibitions and let's hope next time you get even more support,you will from myself and family.
Once again good luck to both groups like I've always said.
Different political parts have been mentione in all this which I have no interest in either party's but I will say for those who are ,VOTE FOR NICOLA REES !
Who would have thought that Linday`s slip of the pen, would lead to 85 Comments, from a cross section of the public, not in the wide spread sense, but merely cross in the angry sense, since the comments all seem to have been from a few cross people.
In the late 1960s and early 1970s, I was one of a generation who were inspired by the writing of Raymond Williams. Though, by then, based in Cambridge he was from Pandy in north east Gwent. His first novel mainly biographical, is called Border Country, and in many peoples opinion is the best novel written in the 20th century, about the working class experience. In addition it is also about identity, as indicated by the title being set on the English Welsh border, at the time I was living in Glasgow and the book helped me come to terms with who I am and my identity. But, in my opinion of all the work he produced, and as an Marxist thinker, University Lecturer and Intellectual , a rare thing in Britain, let alone Wales, he produced a lot, the words that affected me were,
The historian and the engineer have the same mindset, they keep asking the question Why? and are concerned with how things( society, history and machines)work.
That is the difference between the CaerphillyLocal History Society and the Facebook Group, the History Society keeps asking Why? and How?, and then try to answer the problem. The Facebook Group merely post photos on their site, without explaining why and how.
To take an example, despite being told not to access the site I do, because it serves a purpose, and produces some photos that are not on general circulation. One of the recent postings was of the northdam on the eastern front of Caerphilly Castle, and it was very good photograph, but youd have to guess where it was, and what it was.
The Why and How School of History would have said it was the north dam of the eastern front of the castle. They would also have said it was built in the early 14th century, by one of the Despencer family who were finishing the programme, started by the DeClares, to convert a military site into a palace, or at least a large country house. The dam was not purely defensive,but was built to create the northern lake, which was being added as an aesthetic feature. in addition, they may have added that one of the Despencers had been reported to have been in an homosexual relationship with the king, Edward II.
But of course that is no interest to some of the Group ,because, one said they were not interested in the Norman Conquest, but only the last two hundred years the story of the men who sank the pits , and dug the coal. I wonder if he knows that he s almost repeating the words of Zephaniah Williams in 1839 he was a leader of the Chartist March on Newport whose wife kept the Boars Head Hotel(the Municipal Club, for some of our younger readers,) and he said " We are clever enough to dig the canals, mine the coal and smelt the iron , and still they wont give us the vote".
Well, I`m one of the "We", whose ancestors smelted iron and dug coal over south wales, for almost two hundred years, but before that we were involved among other things in agriculture and Unitarianism in West Wales, were Quaker clothtiers in the Cotswolds, and before that we built, defended and attacked the castles involved in the Norman conquest. So my concept of the Why and How of history is wider than the narrow version adopted by the Facebrook Group. And to finish I repeat my initial comment of August 11th.
I welcome Richard Williams comments on the confusion over the Caerphilly Local History Society, and the Facebook organisation, Caerphilly Local History(or is it now Caerphilly Heritage). As an ex Secretary of the Caerphilly Local History Society, I welcome peoples interest in local history,and feel Caerphilly is big enough for two organistions, the Caerphilly Local History Society and Caerphilly Heritage, since they meet different, with two differing approaches to the history of Caerphilly, both of which are valid. I am sure the supporters of Caerphilly Heritage will recieve a warm welcome when, and if, they attend the Society`s successful winter lecture programme
Nicola, i must also congratulate you as you included in your history page our pubs and clubs from a good few years ago,I'm sure that you made many people smile when viewing the pics from these places not only the buildings but even the staff that worked there.
Thank you Nicola.
I have just read this series of exchanges between local historians, hysterical historians, and, impolite teenagers, typical of Facebook, convention bashing parochial political monnows who are afraid to declare thier true identities. When they do so they get sued, and become in danger of extiction. One very interesting question emerges from the comments about the welcome the new group had from the profit making Tourist Centre Council Staff, Why,? which local politicians promoted this exibition? a Freedom of Information Act question may give us all the answers we so eagerly seek about why this new group are so worried about using a name which gives them identtity singularity and why they are so confused about changing the name they appear to have hyjacked..
The fact is that this entire debarcle started by local political voting fodder who sit on mindless and inane council groups and who have nothing better to do than that which they do best, replicate the good works of others, they attempt to hyjack anything that is popular, and they do so in the interest of thier own waining political groups public popularity.
Dear Dear where will it all end? perhaps those comentators who are afraid to use thier own names for fear of thier identitiies being known will have them published anyway because of their political involvment in promoting this debarcle, but, we will never join the two, will we? I think we may.
As some one who has only commented twice, and in my own name, I wonder who Arthur is?, is he King Arthur, Arthur Scargill, Arthur Machen,(unlikely, since he was a long dead mystery writer from Caerleon), or he he just an Arthur?. But, I am more interested in his allegations about political skullduggery, than the identity of Arthur, what can he mean?. I notice thoughout this whole silly episode, that it is the Facebook Group, who are more agitated, someone, commenting under the name of a dead medieval noblewoman, actually used capital letters, which is the equivalent of shouting. The History Society, on the other hand merely state the facts of the matter, in that they were there first, and have done the research, and as a result, have been called names like "elitist old men", as if that were an insult, if its wrong to be elitist, i.e to be educated, and to prefer facts to nameless photographs, and in, addition, to be old, I`m guilty and proud of it. If any politicians are involved they should be ashamed, because, they are elected to represent everyone in their ward, not just their friends.
My dearest Arthur or are you a Martha? Can you please enlighten me on the meaning of the following:
Monnow
Hyjack
Debarcle
Waining
Thier
Comentators
Thank you.
Yours anonymously,
A Caerphilly Adult
John Owen, the voice of moderate conciliation throughout, so far as I can see.
Richard Williams, another moderating voice, even though, it appears, he is simply protecting fifty years of valuable collating and publishing of historical documentation,and endevouring to prevent that committed work by lots of community minded individuals from "deminishing importance" and "accountble attribution".
There are those in the Caerphilly political fraternity (normally the voting fodder, who hold no great political sway anyway and very little else to do) who are, probably by design, intent on reducing and breaking the historic significance of those fifty years of work by Richard Williams and his supporters and members.
This will not be allowed to go un-challenged, and if any local political individuals, or for that matter, political couples, are found to be directly or indirectly involved in this process, which appears to be clearly designed to invoke differences between citizen and citizen in the Community, they will have to answer to the electorate for that action.
I have a feeling that those contributors on this issue who have been having a go at the people who appear to be the architects of the exibition, the Facebook page, the plagerisism, and the lack of foresight in the way they have executed the introduction of this new group including their inability to consider an appropriate seperate identity to the existing History Society, are not the people who are realy pulling the strings, it is possible that a former school teacher and second rate historian and sometimes politician is attempting to punch above their weight, but do not have the guts to do it in their name. Time will tell.
A Caerphilly Adult-
Well well, I now find myself talking to a faceless, nameless, `anonymous`spell checking `assumed` human being, on second thoughts? no they probably miss the point anyway. Or, Could this faceless individual be one of the political franchisees behind the, generally, fraudulent endorsements of this impersonating history group, in which case, identify yourself. But weak politicians always follow where others lead, so I suppose we can expect more comments which will remain unattributable, shame.
I can say that there is no political backing of the Facebook Page.
A Caerphilly Adult, just for your benefit my friend:-
You ask what the following means? let me explain,
Monnow, A river in Monmouth
Hyjack, A morning greeting to Jills husband.
Debarcle, to De-barcle? a word often used on facebook?.
Waining, an indication of the weather as described by Jonathan Ross.
Thier, belonging to them? ( using the long taught i,before e, principal.)
Comentators, I will have to think about this one, but why use two `M` when one will do for the understanding of the `comon`? man.
Nicola, whilst I fully accept your assurances to eveyone that your facebook page has ` no political backing`, it is a little less clear, but it will become clearer I am sure in time, that your organisation is not covertly `backed` by a local political Cabal, and the reasons for this `cabal`s` decisions and support are purely political start to finish.
I ask the questions, who paid for the rental of the Tourist Centre Accommodation promotion?, and how much? if no money changed hands then that itself requires answers when all other good charities are always charged, who pulled the strings?. The banners over the Workmans Hall, same questions, can you see where this is going in the light of obscure and obtuse responses to peoples concerns?.
If this entire issue, with which people have expressed concerns, is no more than a few members of the Caerphilly Community coming together to promote a common interest in local history than that is admirable, but why would like minded people, with an interest in local history ignore 50 years of identical promotion by an established charitable group with unquestioned credentials in the field?, even though I notice some of your personal supporters have attempted to question those well established credentials, why? who yet knows, and, even when the wisdom of doing so is so elequently pointed out to you and your group, you still continue to ignore the conventional courtesies normally afforded to like minded followers of local history
and others with similar or identical views.
All may become clear in the due processes, which you will have to follow if you are not to fall foul of legal convention, for instance I have just notice you replicate on your site a copy of an ordinance survey map, very naughty!!!!!!, unless of course you have writen approval to do so? you may be able to stick two fingers up to the Caerphilly Local History Society but I think you will find you will have to conform to most other legal conventions even if the forementioned Society allow you to ignore thier perfectly reasonable pleading to recognise them for the established authority they have become.
I think that this topic has now gone right off the track ,we still have people who for some reason are to afraid to use their real names.
Personally I would now close this topic because it is quite clear all we have now are a few namles people bickering what it seems to me to because they have different political views to say the least.
I agree with that someone should get sued when proven he has told lies about someone.
I do not want to be a part of any so called history group if the members are like the ones they got posting on here.I really think that those of you who want to continue to keep this bickering up should do it else where and not use the Facebook group as a excuse to do so,
In all fairness Nicola has admitted that mistakes were made,what else do you want from here? Leave the lady in peace it's gone on far to long .
Certain posters on here have really opened my eyes to the so called political bickering,I would never vote for such a bunch,like I have said those who want to keep on bickering go somewhere else and do it and stop using the Facebook group as an excuse to shout off your mouth on here.
Nicola you have come out of this well in my eyes in fact you have should the other childish posters how grown up you have been about it,you have certainly should me that you have got Caerphilly's history in your best interest at heart unlike some of these posters on here.
Good luck for the next exhibition Nicola I will be there with all my family and friends to support you,if I were you I would not have any councillor open it as it might start the bickering off with the opposition leave them where they are you don't need all the childishness ..
once Again Congratulations to Nicola and her team on Facebook,one last thing Nicola why don't you become an independent councillor next year? You would get my vote for sure.
I did not want an exhibition but a few members of the page mentioned it, and as no use was being made for the ground floor of the Visitors Centre, I asked if I could use that, I was told from the beginning that no funds were available and never did ask for any help, the only thing that we used was the electricity. As for the banner, I approached a local firm and they agreed to do the banner free of charge as long as their name sponsored it. All photos are currently being sourced and I am trying to do these as fast as I can but being on my own its taking a bit longer. I have also mentioned that if Richard would like me to remove the photos from The Journals then I will.
I agree with Dave James on most of the comments and suggestions he makes today, however, whilst it may now be time to close down this particular `forum` the issues will not subside in doing so. The issues will continue to be pursued in other places.
There are now fundemental questions to be addressed, not by Nocola particularly, but certainly in the use of public facilities, funding stream support, sponsership, and encouragement to use our Caerphilly Castle for another exibition next year, who encourages Nicola to do so? and why? and, the clear divide the actions of the new group appear to been have created in the history community, this may be by design, but I would hope more to do with Nicola`s addmitted nievity, it maybe that there are those experienced local politicians who should have known better if they were the original promoters and are continued providers to the group.
It is never too late for the protagonists to join forces, that, appears from comments on this story, to be welcome by the Caerphilly Local History Group contributors, but is it a step too far for those who may have already pinned thier flag to some local political mast or other?.
If Nicola were to stand in local politics, in an independent capacity, and to get elected, it would take more than an ability to make the mistake of turning citizen against citizen, there are enough of those in local politics already, and it would take a little more than the endorsment of Dave James. Finally, could it be that Nicola is not that independent of local politics anyway, I dont know, and neither does Dave James, or does he?. This debate will continue, and it is a healthy debate which certainly increases an interest in Caerphilly History. My unsolicited advice to Nicola is to stay out of local politics if you can`t stand the heat, but continue to promote the interests you have engendered, but do try to do it in a more cohesive and community friendly way, bringing together like minded people not driving them apart.
I never set out to cause a divide and would never like, or wish to compete with the established society, I just wanted to create some interest and how better to do so than use the biggest social network site which reaches 500 Million, and as for encouragement, the rising 900 members and 2,000 monthly active members are encouragement enough.
Dave James, I have always been brought up to recognise that actions have consequences, both good and bad, This is why I prefer to deal in facts rather than personalise any issue. This why I, politely, put the record straight when Nicola wrote that our society is a publicly funded body without a scrap of evidence to back her statement.
I believe I know who Arthur is, he is not and never has been a member of Caerphilly Local History Society, so why have a go at our society members over his comments? If he is who I believe he is then he uses his given name, unlike 'Alice De La Marche' and others,who hide behind a pseudonym.
I have commented in a measured, factual fashion as has the only other society member posting here, John Owen. Unlike some of the vitriolic comments, aimed at the society, from anonymous people.
Others have speculated about political machination, not I. The Caerphilly Local History Society welcomes people of all political persuasions and none.
Is there political interference? You tell me; I would not be surprised if certain third rate politicians saw an opportunity to meddle. Why they would bother is beyond me, there are no votes in the study of the past.
Arthur, please can you say why you are not willing to use your correct name?
Richard I also believe I know who Arthur is,I think it's a case of sour grapes .
Nicola , I honestly believe that you cannot do anymore than you have done.Nicola like I have said many times I still believe it will be in your interest to change the name of your Facebook group,one of the main reasons that I would change is to show people that you have NO connection with the original Society as it is quite clear certain people have more than just a interest of Caerphilly's history at heart.
Nicola I look forward to your next exhibition,the rest can carry on bickering..Good Luck Nicola and your Facebook group.
Dave (James)
Arthur IS my name, Arthur is my true identity, I am no-one else, if your slight paranoia on this point disturbs you rest easy `sunny Jim`
David and Richard unfortunately you've been fooled. Arthur is a classic Internet troll: –
"A troll is someone who posts extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
Do not feed the troll. Ignore his comments.
Thanks for your reply,I am well aware what a Internet troll is,to be honest I tend to ignore ANY post from anyone not using their full name.
As I have already stated in respect to my identity, I am Arthur, no-one else, but, could I be Joe Bloggs? could I have posted?
"Joe Bloggs on August 12th, 2011 at 6:42 pm says…
Ron are you child? Because you’re certainly acting like one. Accusing “the people of Caerphilly” of having low levels of literacy is quite ironic coming from yourself.
Richard good luck with your website. It is a shame you’re not embracing Facebook and Twitter." Who knows who Joe Bloggs realy is?
Dave, You will notice that you and I agree on about 90% of what has been posted by you,and I certainly agree that people should ignore those who clearly mislead legitimate bloggers with a hidden identity like Joe Bloggs. I am not using a false identity, I am Athur, I have blogged on other news issues of interest to my Caerphilly Community and will continue to do so,I have no wish however establish a role for myself in public life, I do not wish to fly a personal flag, I am therefore reluctant to provide my full identity as is my right and everyone elses, if however people do not agree with me, or, they do agree with my comments it is of little importance to me as I will continue to make them, I hope, in an accurate and honest way. If I wanted to influence anything or anyone I would enter local politiics, and in that situation, not to declare a full and honest, clear and identifiable identity, on this or any other blog would be totally inconsistant with the honesty, accountablility, and transperancy required from such individuals. I personally believe there are those who express a view on some interent blogging sites who hide thier identity, very naughty if that were found to be the case.
Anyway, I respect all that everyone says on this news site, the opinions are generally honest and designed to be helpful, I do not agree with Joe Bloggs that anyone who posts a comment should be ignored, I hope he or she is not a local politician expressing such a view.
Back to History I say.